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 If we get a 6th Edition Codex...

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kuzzuk
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Thu Feb 06 2014, 07:50

I would like to see the result of a 1 on drugs chart have a purpose, give +1 dodge or cover/Jink save to a unit

I think give raiders av11 like a ravager would make them appealing over a venom.

And what I think would solve a lot of problems (but would it be OP?); give all de transports the same 'sky hunter' rule as the eldar lynx, so they can count as a flyer for a turn, would make us fast again and be closer to fluff I believe, you could do it on reavers/ ravagers and scourges too but maybe making them flying and be able to shoot would be too good...

Oh and a 6th place on venoms for my succy to ride with wyches !
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Thu Feb 06 2014, 17:34

Megasaur for our Beastpack as a possible large model, anyone?

I wouldn't mind if they didn't give us any new units, just upgraded the rules in line with 6th....i.e. some form of Skyfire and inventive ways of softening the blow of Overwatch and weakened assault rules.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Thu Feb 06 2014, 20:24

@kuzzuk wrote:
And what I think would solve a lot of problems (but would it be OP?); give all de transports the same 'sky hunter' rule as the eldar lynx, so they can count as a flyer for a turn, would make us fast again and be closer to fluff I believe, you could do it on reavers/ ravagers and scourges too but maybe making them flying and be able to shoot would be too good...

That would be OP IMHO, but... how about our transports having a "flyer" rule for every first round of every battle. Nah... that would not work...
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Expletive Deleted
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Thu Feb 06 2014, 22:17

They could give us a "dark" version of the wave serpent shield for raiders. That'd solve our transport and flyers woes. Bwahaha. I couldn't even play my army seriously.

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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Thu Feb 06 2014, 23:30

@aurynn wrote:
Quote :
As I see it, Dark Eldar were just designed for a different game, and we can still manage, but we just don't fit in well with the new game. What we really want is to be re-designed to fit in with the new rules. These are just a few ideas on how that could be done. :)If you don't agree with some of them, or any of them, that's fine, but something does need to change, hopefully soon!

That I agree with. But that does not mean we are not fun to play. :-)

Well, fun is relative. I can spend two hours around a table playing a game and honestly say (sometimes) that it was fun. But was it as much fun as it would have been if I had been playing, say, Craftworld Eldar? Well, no, that would have been a much more intense and dynamic game, with more ebb and flow, variety, and surprising turns. By that standard, it actually wasn't much fun at all. There's a certain satisfaction when you manage to achieve decent results with the extremely limited tools that you are given, but is that the same as fun? I don't think so.

My opponents, meanwhile, seem to be having the time of their lives. They can't wait to try this, and they can't wait to try that, and wow, that's really powerful, and ha, ha, that was really funny. I think it would be fun if we could play that game too!
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Fri Feb 07 2014, 02:37

You know, Agatha, at this point I would open a bottle and discuss the matter until we beat the bottle or it beats us. It could be a fun discussion. Cheers. :-)
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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Fri Feb 07 2014, 05:08

@aurynn wrote:
You know, Agatha, at this point I would open a bottle and discuss the matter until we beat the bottle or it beats us. It could be a fun discussion. Cheers. :-)

Did you say... bottle?

What kind of bottle?

I do like a good bottle.  Very Happy 
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Fri Feb 07 2014, 06:22

@Barking Agatha wrote:
@aurynn wrote:
You know, Agatha, at this point I would open a bottle and discuss the matter until we beat the bottle or it beats us. It could be a fun discussion. Cheers. :-)

Did you say... bottle?

What kind of bottle?

I do like a good bottle.  Very Happy 

If it were my choice, I would go with an Irish whiskey, good cognac or a good wine. :-)
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wanderingblade
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Fri Feb 07 2014, 18:58

@aurynn wrote:
You know, I have felt as you do for a LONG time. However with much more important things on my mind than being angry at GW for not tuning up the game, I just prefer to play with people who are reasonable and inventive.

In addition. I still hope that the new release system of GW will help balancing out the game in relatively short delays after a fault is found. On the other hand just wait and see how many whiners there will be about the fact that the rules are in WD, which is paid and after 1 year they dont know what rules are in effect and which are not. But we will get closer to balance. :-) Being attentive to such gamesystem is expensive for the devs. Lets see how many ppl will be able to pay for it.

As for the hard counters. Should we relinquish splinter cannons and venoms because Tyranids cry we are hard counter? We have our own rules that are considered broken by some armies. Tau and Eldar are, I grant you, the new black, and put hurt on us, but even they CAN be beaten as is shown in many batreps on this site. It depends if you play powergamers. I don't. If someone brings only serpents and WKs to the table, I just don't play.

And lastly. Gaming system with about 10 armies is extremely difficult to balance. If I thought I could do it better than GW, I would already started my own company. But I can understand the difficulty, not mentioning the effort HAS TO be profitable to shareholders...

Lets bring this back to the main point firstly - nothing I suggested is a hard counter and nothing would change the fact we are still largely dependent on cover for our armour saves. Our vehicles would still jink, our infantry still look for ruins and area terrain. It would not magically make Ignore Cover weapons useless against us. In fact, they'd still be very good. So would conventional weaponry which would be far more hard countered by an entire army with excessively high cover saves. What my suggestions would do would give us a better chance of survivability by making us harder to hit in the first place when used sensibly. What's more, everything I suggested is currently in the game without breaking anything. Improving or adapting it is unlikely to actually break these things. These suggestions are not a masterplan to make TauDar impotent. They are the only feasible way to give us genuine protection from shooting that does not rely on numbers or resilience. Because they borked the game and made cover saves very situational. Plentiful very high cover saves only creates more hard counters.

For what it's worth, I would have been happy with Tyranids being able to reduce the effectiveness of poison weapons on some units, thus mitigating our undeserved hard counter, and believe that should have been done.

Finally - I play in a casual environment that self-polices. I believe the amount of self-policing that has to go on is incompatible with the prices GW wants us to pay. I believe that the guy who wants to run an Iyanden rapid response force (Wave Serpents and WKs) or tons of Heldrakes shouldn't be penalised or ostracised by GW's rules writing. I believe that a better balance than this is easier to find and that perfect balance is, although impossible, still worth striving for.

The community will always have some work to do. GW have so much more work they can and should do.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Fri Feb 07 2014, 21:05

I find that most of the meta problems could be solved by adding 0-1 or 0-2 rule to certain very powerful units as some tounaments do. The only thing it does not solve is wave serpents as they are the only dedicated transports for eldar and cannot be limited like this. The best-units-spam is the current meta problem. However it could be argued that there is always the next-best thing that can be spammed and we would end little better than before.
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Expletive Deleted
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Fri Feb 07 2014, 22:43

@wanderingblade wrote:

Finally - I play in a casual environment that self-polices. I believe the amount of self-policing that has to go on is incompatible with the prices GW wants us to pay. I believe that the guy who wants to run an Iyanden rapid response force (Wave Serpents and WKs) or tons of Heldrakes shouldn't be penalised or ostracised by GW's rules writing. I believe that a better balance than this is easier to find and that perfect balance is, although impossible, still worth striving for.

The community will always have some work to do. GW have so much more work they can and should do.

Agreed. One of the largest requests on this thread are to make Mandrakes usable because people like the fluff and the models. On that note I had a discussion with a Blood Angels player who will never field his Storm Raven if his opponent isn't playing a flyer or has no anti-air. Great guy, sure, but here's the kicker. He's a pilot in the military, he absolutely loves his flyers, he'd run 4 storm ravens and two storm talons but he rarely ever plays one because he doesn't want an unfair advantage. That's kinda a crime in my book. I personally love the look of the heldrake. I'd run three in my Iron Warriors army, if it wouldn't make me a giant douchebag.

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Fri Feb 07 2014, 23:15

Running 3 helldrakes does not necessarily make you a douchebag. Where I live you can arrange games with people with lists like that if you wish to. And some people do want to play against such lists just to test themselves. If it is agreed before the game, its perfectly OK.
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Expletive Deleted
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Mon Feb 10 2014, 16:47

Not to take the post too far out of topic, but you don't see an issue, aurynn, with having to "ask permission" to play with regulation legal models you payed $200 for? I'm not crying too hard over here, because while I like the heldrake, I'd rather play with my DE any day. But bad game balance can ruin more than just the tournament scene.

Anyway, here's another though, give grisly trophies a larger range, or make the unit that took it as a dedicated transport get the benefit with no range. The way I've been failing leadership checks lately I'd buy it every time!

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MurDok
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Tue Feb 11 2014, 01:50

I'd love to see a flying monstrous creature along the lines of a pain or parasite engine, call it a Tormentor Engine lol. Also take the Duke out and give him his own dataslate/supplement along the line of a Crosair-ish feel and look. Lastly make both the Mandrakes and more importantly the Web Way more useful, make the webway almost an "auto-take" in all lists, all this would make me one happy Dark Eldar player.

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paperSTsoapsCO
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Tue Feb 11 2014, 08:09

What about giving the Haemie an option to get a clone field?
Also I'd like to see them take off the one of each rule from the court. I'm probably over doing the HQ section but, I wouldn't mind a way to outfit a shooty style archon other than a blaster Also, like almost every other person I'd like to see overwatch protection on wyches and succubi. Oh, almost forgot can we get jet packs on the scourages? Being able to move in the assault phase wouldgo long way to making them viable. Lastly, splinter racks are great and all but, how about allowing warrs access to one of the armies strengths. Their BS ,allow me to fire at full BS if we move a raider 12inch. Gunboats FTW.

Oh, almost forgot another flier. Troop transport? A proper fighter?
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Tue Feb 11 2014, 18:48

@Expletive Deleted wrote:
Not to take the post too far out of topic, but you don't see an issue, aurynn, with having to "ask permission" to play with regulation legal models you payed $200 for?
Of couse I see the issue, but either the codex should prevent you from spending the 200 by limiting possible amount of those in the list, or the meta does it for you. I would not even think about buying 3 helldrakes unless for a serious comp tourney. And after that tourney I would not use them for normal play. I love fluff game, fluff lists, thats my idea of fun. Not clashing of best-unit-spam-lists. No offence meant, but you simply could not have thought that a 3 helldrake list would be fun for normal play... but thats just my subjective opinion.
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Tue Feb 11 2014, 20:51

Jetfighter as Fast Attack!!!
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Devilogical
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Thu Feb 13 2014, 11:30

@lcfr wrote:
Jetfighter as Fast Attack!!!

I don`t want that.

I usualy run a lots of beast packs, scourges, reavers or hellions, so, in my opinion jetfither will better be in HS.

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Thu Feb 13 2014, 11:47

@lcfr wrote:
Jetfighter as Fast Attack!!!

Yeah, I wouldn't be too keen on that either. It would take up space reserved for Reavers.
Also, I'd be worried if the Jetfighter were Fast, as that would imply the Voidraven would still be Heavy, and we'd have six flyer armies everywhere. I don't mind Flyers, I quite like the dynamic they bring to the game, but six is a bit much (and we ALL know people would try this).
I think a better option would be a new Fast unit that was a smaller flyer, maybe Something Vyper or Hornet sized, but still an actual Flyer rather than a Skimmer. Hell, make it an updated version of the Raven, and I'd be interested in that.
(Stupid idea o'clocl = arm it with Splinter weapons, but make its ability JUST Vector Strike, or something similar. Make it for purely supressing fire with micro-bomblets or something to pin a foe rather than damage.)
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melkorthetonedeaf
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Sun Feb 16 2014, 19:22

I hadn't realized that the majority of our units are close-up. I like the 'keep away' strategy, but it would be nice to use some of those melee units without them getting obliterated post-assault.

I think the coolest thing suggested in this thread is the Archon on a skyboard or jetbike. Eldar's ability to Jetseer has made them so ridiculously maneuverable, and it feels like the whole idea was originally FOR Dark Eldar.

I'd like Raiders to have a transport capacity of 12 instead of 10. I imagine if a Venom can have 5 models hanging off of it, the Bantha-II Skiff could easily have 12.

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