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The Shredder
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PostSubject: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Wed Jan 15 2014, 13:58

...What would you like to see?

Basically, I'm curious to know what people are hoping for if we were to get a 6th edition codex.

- Any changes to specific units?
- Extra army-wide rule(s), or changes to current ones?
- Any new units you'd like to see made?
- Anything you really hope they don't change?  Wink 
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Wed Jan 15 2014, 14:35

We did have a few similar threads over the summer but I think it might be useful to collect some of the various ideas in one place so I'll leave this topic open. Will post my own thoughts when I have time.

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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Wed Jan 15 2014, 14:40

-Units: It'd be nice to see mandrakes useable. Aside from that something that makes our wyches bloodbrides more survivable until they get in CC.

-Rules: I'd like to see an exploding boat not wipe out half the unit inside. Get rid of hypex and replace it with something that benefits all drug users.

-New Units: A good flyer, or something that can deal with flyers. I'd also like to see something that
gives the support a psyker would, I know we don't have psykers, but just make some new arcane wargear and allow our archons and succubi to take them.

Don't change: I hope we don't lose poison. I'm not sure why I fear they'll take it from us, but I think it's really unique to our army.

I'm keeping my wishlisting reasonable I hope.

Other than that a giant Coven Gargantuan Creature titan with a giant codpiece. And that's his only D-Weapon.
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Kung Fu Hamster
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Wed Jan 15 2014, 14:54

I want Mamdrakes to not suck and we way portals to be useful again. That's about it.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Wed Jan 15 2014, 14:59

I'll second usable Mandrakes. Such gorgeous models and such utterly crap rules. I'm not so sure about the exploding boat thing though. I'd rather see our boats not explode in the first place! It just doesn't seem right that a dying race relies on tactics that see only a fraction of their troops and materiel return from any conflict!

I'd like to see a re-working of our game mechanics. In 5e we relied on cover and FNP to survive. In 6e those things have both been nerfed and our already fragile units are taking such a massive hammering that we can find it very hard to recover.

Above all else though, I'd like to see a return of the WWP. If there is one iconic thing about the Dark Eldar it's the idea of them appearing from nowhere and disappearing just as quickly.

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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Wed Jan 15 2014, 16:08

I'd like that new release would introduce new unit that would be desirable because it is good, not because other units would be made intentionally worse.

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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Wed Jan 15 2014, 16:09

@Count Adhemar wrote:
I'd like to see a re-working of our game mechanics. In 5e we relied on cover and FNP to survive. In 6e those things have both been nerfed and our already fragile units are taking such a massive hammering that we can find it very hard to recover.
In 4th Edition it was even worse - the new codex made us *vastly* tougher than we had been...albeit also hard nerfing our h2h skills pretty bad though boosting up our shooting.

I don't mind the fragility at all, I think that's what we're about.
I'd like to see us manage to be a better hammer though. I don't mind being glass as long as I can at least argue that we're a hammer, and it's been a while since we felt like a hammer.

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Kung Fu Hamster
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Wed Jan 15 2014, 16:17

Maybe we'll get really lucky and get webway portals as purchasable fortifications.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Wed Jan 15 2014, 16:23

@Thor665 wrote:
I don't mind the fragility at all, I think that's what we're about.
I'd like to see us manage to be a better hammer though. I don't mind being glass as long as I can at least argue that we're a hammer, and it's been a while since we felt like a hammer.

I definitely know what you mean.

I think one of the problems is that marines have been getting cheaper (and often better).

When each of your warriors costs about half of what a marine costs (with the same damage output), being more fragile seems like a reasonable exchange.

However, when just 4 points more gets you +1S, +1T, ATSKNF, a meaningful save, better and more varied (and generally cheaper) special and heavy weapons, the deal starts to look a lot more one-sided.

Same with HQ choices - a SM librarian now costs just 15pts more than a Haemonculus. That buys him +1WS, +1S, +2Ld, ATSKNF, a meaningful save, a force weapon, a psychic hood, and a psychic power from an excellent selection.

I guess even with the nerf to FNP, pain tokens must be really valuable.  tongue 
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Wed Jan 15 2014, 16:28

@Thor665 wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
I'd like to see a re-working of our game mechanics. In 5e we relied on cover and FNP to survive. In 6e those things have both been nerfed and our already fragile units are taking such a massive hammering that we can find it very hard to recover.
In 4th Edition it was even worse - the new codex made us *vastly* tougher than we had been...albeit also hard nerfing our h2h skills pretty bad though boosting up our shooting.

I don't mind the fragility at all, I think that's what we're about.
I'd like to see us manage to be a better hammer though. I don't mind being glass as long as I can at least argue that we're a hammer, and it's been a while since we felt like a hammer.

I kind of agree but do feel that we're perhaps a little too fragile. Personally I'd like to see Jink saves as a separate category of save entirely, so you'd have armour, cover, invulnerable and jink. Ignores Cover would apply only to cover saves but certain items, like the Dark Reaper Rangefinder, would apply to Jink instead and some items would apply to both. But that's more a 7e thing than a new codex thing.

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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Wed Jan 15 2014, 17:51

Give all vehicles Skilled Rider, let us fire Snaps after/while turbo boosting or moving flat out.
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Braden Campbell
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Wed Jan 15 2014, 18:20

Something in the same vein as the Space Marine drop pod rules - that is to say, that we would be able to have everything start in reserve provided that half of said units arrive top of our turn 1.

Not only would it validate Sliscus' "screaming jets for everyone" power, but feed into the aforementioned "they come at you from out of nowhere" flavour.
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Wed Jan 15 2014, 19:25

I'll put the fifth or sixth vote for WWP.
I like the idea of buying them as fortifications that can be placed outside of our deployment zone. I'd happily take a scatter roll for placement and not allow charges first turn and pay more for WWP large enough to accommodate our vehicles.

Mandrakes
Perhaps allow them to "manifest" themselves in or near area terrain. Roll for reserves and if passed they get placed within up to X" of area terrain. At the end of the turn they may return to the shadows and voluntarily be placed in reserves once again. Sort of a spooky Sky Leap. I don't have my eldar codex handy that is the rule the Swooping Hawks use isn't it?

Pain Engines
I'd like to see our Pain Engines pick up from PfP some sort of aura with an area effect that as it builds reduces enemy leadership, then armor and armor saves, finally reduces BS and WS.

Power from Pain
A dodge save for both shooting and cc attacks, a WS and BS boost, then fearless.
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Wed Jan 15 2014, 19:47

Make Kheradruakh not terribad?
I really like his fluff (to me obsessive things like his collection of skulls is what makes the mystic of warhammer 40k kinda believable) but as far as i have read the consensus on here is that he is the most useless unit of the DE.
The idea of a four armed super Mandrake is also cool. But i hope he is not fubar.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Wed Jan 15 2014, 19:53

Marrath Schlagschatten wrote:
Make Kheradruakh not terribad?
I really like his fluff (to me obsessive things like his collection of skulls is what makes the mystic of warhammer 40k kinda believable) but as far as i have read the consensus on here is that he is the most useless unit of the DE.
The idea of a four armed super Mandrake is also cool. But i hope he is not fubar.

That would determinately be nice.

Really, I think there are just two changes that might at least make him playable:

- Make his weapon AP2 again (he's supposed to be an assassin, after all)
- Allow him to assault the turn he arrives from reserve (Really, I just don't see this as being overpowered - as characters go, his combat stats are mediocre at best, and he's certainly not durable)

It would also be nice if he got a bonus of some kind for killing an enemy in a challenge (mainly because it seems fluffy).
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Wed Jan 15 2014, 21:27

Most of all, I'd like for us to get our speed back. With every army (or their allies or their dataslates) having access to flyers, flying monstrous creatures, turboboosting bikes and units deepstriking all over the place, the gaming board has become very small. Any army can reach any part of the board in a single turn. Dark Eldar used to be the masters of maneuvering, redeployment and trickery. But with every new edition, we lost more and more of our very own special rules to other armies.
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Thu Jan 16 2014, 01:26

@Mandor wrote:
Most of all, I'd like for us to get our speed back. With every army (or their allies or their dataslates) having access to flyers, flying monstrous creatures, turboboosting bikes and units deepstriking all over the place, the gaming board has become very small. Any army can reach any part of the board in a single turn. Dark Eldar used to be the masters of maneuvering, redeployment and trickery. But with every new edition, we lost more and more of our very own special rules to other armies.

This.

And This Again.

Oh, and something to blow the snot out of flier spam. Just doesn't seem right that the fastest, hut and runniest, technologically superior (mostly) race in the galaxy can't deal with this. Goes back to the speed issue...
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Thu Jan 16 2014, 03:10

For me I'd wish for:

- an Archon or Succy on a Jetbike
- DE only FnP incease to 4+
- Flyers moved to the FA slot
- some twin-linking somewhere other than the Talos
- Mandrakes to score...or at the very least to work
- Trueborn to take Dissies

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Thu Jan 16 2014, 10:44

@1++ wrote:
For me I'd wish for:

- an Archon or Succy on a Jetbike
- DE only FnP incease to 4+
- Flyers moved to the FA slot
- some twin-linking somewhere other than the Talos
- Mandrakes to score...or at the very least to work
- Trueborn to take Dissies

Can't argue with most of that.

Option for Reaver Jetbike on some of our HQ's would be fantastic. Would love to have an Archon leading a squad of Reavers.

Can't see them giving better FNP sadly but would be nice if we started with it default and perhaps had it improved via pain tokens.

Flyers, and AA ability overall, needs to be improved. I am sick of having to rely on Eldar allies or fortifications in order to take out enemy flyers.

Lack of access to rerolls to hit from psychic powers, other than through Eldar allies, means that we now have some of the least accurate shooting in the game. Only Orks and Tyranids are probably less accurate. An ability to twin-link or otherwise reroll misses would be invaluable. 3 Dark Lances on a Ravager sounds great until you realise that only 2 are likely to hit and only 1 do any damage to a vehicle.

Workable Mandrakes would be lovely. I've previously suggested (in Rules Development) giving them the ability to manifest in their opponents shadows, thereby negating Overwatch when charging. This would certainly help, as would giving them poison and/or rending weapons.

Disintegrators on non-vehicles would be great. Blasters are okay but it would be nice to have some AP2 with lower strength and greater ROF on our infantry.

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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Thu Jan 16 2014, 12:37

@1++ wrote:
For me I'd wish for:

- an Archon or Succy on a Jetbike

I'd quite like to be able to mount one on a Skyboard.

@1++ wrote:

- DE only FnP incease to 4+

I'd like it to stay at 5+, but work even against ID weapons.  Wink 

@1++ wrote:

- some twin-linking somewhere other than the Talos

Can't argue with that.

Also, with the introduction of flyers, I'd like to see us get some weapons along the lines of Autocannons or assault cannons - weaker than Darklances (but still high enough strength to threaten vehicles), and high rate of fire.

@1++ wrote:
- Trueborn to take Dissies

I'd like most of our squads to have that option.

I mean, it's not like marines can only take plasmaguns on their sternguard.
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darthken239
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Thu Jan 16 2014, 15:50

id like to see the return of the gunboat, a full 12" move and the troops inside firing at full BS, it's what we're supposed to be good at any way. Add splinter wracks to that for even more fun.

Get rid of the stupid supersonic rule, it makes a great fluff rule, but does absolutely nothing on the gaming table

Our warriors with slightly better stats than eldar guardians, maybe I6 across the board????

And some decent anti Psycher gear
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Thu Jan 16 2014, 15:56

With regard to the speed issue, I was rather sad when the CSM daemon prince got I8.

Did it really need to be faster than an Archon?
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Thu Jan 16 2014, 16:37

Chariot or some other type of dedicated transport for HQs. It is described in the fluff how some Archons are so paranoid that they take a transport for only themselves, yet this is not supported in the rules. We also do not have a lot of Chariots in 40k yet, and it is a very DE-ish unit.

give dark eldar some kind of battle focus
fix archon court, mandrakes & decapitator
reduce Lelith and Drazhar in points
nerf venoms?
give scourges skyfire
give Dais of Destruction Aerial Assault
Flyers in fast attack would be awesome
Make the strength of Cronos large blast higher. S3 just isn't enough.
EDIT: Make Voidraven bomb large blast, it's supposed to be the ultimate DE payload

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Thu Jan 16 2014, 16:44

@Elzadar wrote:
Chariot or some other type of dedicated transport for HQs. It is described in the fluff how some Archons are so paranoid that they take a transport for only themselves, yet this is not supported in the rules. We also do not have a lot of Chariots in 40k yet, and it is a very DE-ish unit.

If we now get something that looks even remotely like the Segway of Khorne I'm coming round your house and posting snakes through your letterbox!

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PostSubject: Re: If we get a 6th Edition Codex...   Thu Jan 16 2014, 16:50

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Elzadar wrote:
Chariot or some other type of dedicated transport for HQs. It is described in the fluff how some Archons are so paranoid that they take a transport for only themselves, yet this is not supported in the rules. We also do not have a lot of Chariots in 40k yet, and it is a very DE-ish unit.

If we now get something that looks even remotely like the Segway of Khorne I'm coming round your house and posting snakes through your letterbox!

I was more thinking about the Catacomb Command Barge  tongue

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