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CheeZe
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PostSubject: More Background Questions   More Background Questions I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 16 2013, 18:21

So I've got some more questions regarding more background stuff since I'm working on a DE fic.

1) Do Eldar and Dark Eldar speak the same language, but possibly with different accents? I believe they do but I want to confirm this.

2) What is the age of maturity for the Eldar? At what point do they stop physically growing and are considered adults?

3) Besides politically arranged marriages, do regular marriages occur? I don't mean romantic marriages but rather ones of convenience, such as for security reasons. I can't tell from the fluff whether such things would be considered useful to a Dark Eldar or whether the concept is just considered too silly for them.
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PostSubject: Re: More Background Questions   More Background Questions I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 16 2013, 22:16

1) I personally believe they speak two distinct dialects, as shown by the difference in their runes.

2) I think I read somewhere in the new CWE codex that it's around one century, but I don't have the page number yet so don't believe it fully.

3) I guess it depends on the situation of the Eldar at the time.

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PostSubject: Re: More Background Questions   More Background Questions I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 16 2013, 23:07

2) as most Dark Eldar are grown not born the time it takes for them to age can vary, at least I would think it would. I figure the Hamis can manipulate that stuff
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PostSubject: Re: More Background Questions   More Background Questions I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 17 2013, 02:52

Regarding #2, it was for both regular and Dark Eldar. I believe the fluff for tube-born is that they pop out fully matured. But for Trueborn or regular Eldar, they'd have to go through childhood and that sort of stuff.

Thanks!

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clively
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PostSubject: Re: More Background Questions   More Background Questions I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 17 2013, 07:22

1. Of course they would. There are even differences between craftworlds.

2. Vat grown so not really a consideration.

3. Marriage to an Eldar is a passing thing. Similar to how they change paths. They do something for awhile, then when they've explored it to the extent they want, they move on.

For DE, marriage would be anathema. In the DE world you have master/slave relationships. Everyone bows down to someone else... Well, except for Vect. Any type of partnership is a temporary thing that exists only as long as both sides see continued value in it. Usually the slave side is seeking a way to overthrow he master while the master is happily subjugating the slave. This doesn't translate well into anything resembling marriage.

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Mngwa
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PostSubject: Re: More Background Questions   More Background Questions I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 17 2013, 09:30

2. I have always thought of around a hundred years, like it has been said. I dont think that eldar (or at least DE) have an age after which you can call yourself an adult (like 18 or 21 for humans). And im pretty sure that some Commorrites forget their age at some point, and start telling their it in decades or centuries instead of single years Very Happy

Since this is close to the topic, another biology thing I have been pondering:
How long does eldar pregnancy last?
I have understood that since newborns are quite rare, it would be longer than with humans, maybe two years or even more?
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PostSubject: Re: More Background Questions   More Background Questions I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 17 2013, 10:06

@Mngwa wrote:
Since this is close to the topic, another biology thing I have been pondering:
How long does eldar pregnancy last?
I have understood that since newborns are quite rare, it would be longer than with humans, maybe two years or even more?
If we assume that the 40k universe obeys roughly the same natural laws as Earth regarding such things then gestation period seems to be roughly based on animal size - so for humans 9 months, Gorillas about 8.5 months - I think we could assume an Eldar gestation period of between say 8-10 months.

Given the apparently low natural birth-rate though I think the Eldar are the Giant Pandas of the 40k universe when it comes to conception.


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PostSubject: Re: More Background Questions   More Background Questions I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 17 2013, 11:51

3. I'd assume marriage in the sense of partnership for life doesn't happen for Dark Eldar because of their inherent nature. Any business partnership or alliance only lasts as long as it is beneficial to both parties. But then you have courtesans, mistresses, incidental lovers; all of which do not require the degree of commitment that marriage requires and Dark Eldar lack. You might even see a master-slave relationship that has continued for so long that they know each other inside out and have a deep-seated mutual hatred based on a long relationship. Sounds like some marriages to me tongue 

And then there's the possibility that a Dark Eldar wants a biological heir (possibly as a trophy or for some base need) and so brokers a deal with another to mate and create a progeny. But I'm gonna assume most Dark Eldar don't want to deal with the additional vulnerability that caring after a child would require and so that this transaction happens at the highest levels if at all.
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clively
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PostSubject: Re: More Background Questions   More Background Questions I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 17 2013, 17:33

One thing I've seen in the fluff is that they appear to have very large families.

In a recent book one of the archons had a haemonculus go through his list of cousins to find someone that looked similar enough to him in order to take his place at a meeting. I think he was the 46th one they looked at. Of course the cousin was disposed of later so as not to encourage a rival...

There is also fluff stating that they do "mate" for lack of a better word. Again, ts a matter of convenience in which both parties are working out the best ways to get rid of one another...

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PostSubject: Re: More Background Questions   More Background Questions I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 19 2013, 15:57

1. The DE supplement for Rogue Trader (the RPG, not the 1st edition of 40k) atleast lists Eldar and Dark Eldar as separate languages. The latter is described as an offshoot dialect of the former, and as sounding harsher with (unsuprisingly given this is Dark Eldar we're talking about) a huge variety of words for describing different types of pain and fear. Dark Eldar characters start with both languages already learned, so they can speak both. I'd figure that even if you only spoke one, you could still understand some of the other as they're described as dialects, not entirely separate languages. Likely they share the same syntax and grammar, but the vocabulary is different (Craftworld Eldar probably don't have a 100 separate words for stabbing people).

2.No idea. I don't think they would mature that much slower than humans, but since Eldar live for a long time, it could take a lot longer for them to be considered "adult" in terms of life experience than for them to reach physical maturity. With Dark Eldar, given that most of them are vat-grown with accelerated growth (so they're already physically mature when born), it would be even more difficult to say.

3.A story in one of the BL books (Fear the Alien, I think) implies that Dark Eldar consider everything as different degrees of enslavement. Their version of marriage involves submitting to the other in exchange for some benefit, whether personal or political. That being said, they can fall in love, even if the concept of love as we know it would be extremely alien for the DE culture.

Somebody mentioned Eldar pregnancy. According to the DE codex, it takes several "cycles", but does not elaborate on how long a cycle is. Cycle is standard sci-fi talk for a year, but the lenght of a year varies from planet to planet. And since Dark Eldar live in the Webway, which lacks palnets that orbit stars, the unit may be based on something entirely different (like maybe the captive suns of Commorragh). Still, background generally seems to point to Eldar gestation taking considerably longer than human one. The BL book Xenology also posits (tho it was just in in-universe theory) that it may take multiple insertions of genetic material at specific intervals. Clearly Eldar reproduction is very complicated. No wonder CW Eldar have a hard time keeping their numbers up and DE prefer to proliferate with extensive use of vats.

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PostSubject: Re: More Background Questions   More Background Questions I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 21 2013, 22:15

Well, that is interesting.

I would say they are all of the same language family, a bit like the Celtic languages (which canonicaly their culture is based upon, of course, there are the Sidhe of celtic myth...But I suspect our myth is based upon the Saami, a mysterious race of forest dwelling hunters and pastoralists, much given to magical practices (many unspeakable) and shooting folk with poisoned arrows.)

Craftworlds would have separate dialects, as would different districts of Commoragh...But there would be a common tongue.

(Was it in Path of the Renegade they mention a difference between High commoragh and low commoragh?)

So though Eldar would understand each other, unless they made a special effort to disguise their speech, they would in all probability know where the other Eldar came from.

(And of course many understand Gothic)

As for reproduction, we must consider what we know about the Eldar

They were made by the Old ones. (And so cannot evolve, at least physicaly)

The Old ones are long lived creatures, but the Eldar seem to have got their expanded lifespans from the time altering aspect of the Webway.

The Eldar were devised to fight the Old ones foes, they are a warrior race. (Something we must never forget when seduced by their allure (`Allure` Elf Lure` Another similar word we have is `Glamour`) All Eldar are warriors, so in a sense there are no innocent civilians in Eldar society)

So we see perhaps the Ork and Slann in Realspace, the Jokerio doing the tech, and the Eldar protecting the Webway.

As for reproduction, aside from status, the Dark Eldar have a simple way. But do they have mothering instincts?

If they still do, then that means female DE must have radically advanced ambitious mores...They want to get to the pinnacle of nobility in order to have the ultimate possession, a baby of their very own.

(I see Mandrakes as being the same way, only the Alpha female of the pack gets to breed, and so the lesser females are always fighting for status, this would explain why the mandrakes we see are all males...to go on a realspace raid you must have a modicum of teamwork.)

On that line, there must be a regular trade in Commoragh in little monkeigh pets...Elves steal babies as you know...

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PostSubject: Re: More Background Questions   More Background Questions I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 03 2013, 06:04

I think you guys are right, different dilects for eldar languages, but in the end, everyone can understand eachother, literally all eldar. Eldar are very advanced, no major conflicts originally, orignally all the same race with the same language.

Quote :
The Old ones are long lived creatures, but the Eldar seem to have got their expanded lifespans from the time altering aspect of the Webway.
There is some very old fluff explaining how the eldar used to be Immortal like the fantasy elves, but something happened, don't remember what exactly that changed their status to: very long life rather than just immortal. Dark Eldar on the other side can be considered immortal if not killed, Vect is just so old...and he won't die anytime soon.

Quote :
What is the age of maturity for the Eldar
About the same as humans, but aging is completely different, consider like they can stay young for a very long time, an "old" eldar is still very mobile and agile, nothing to do with how humans evolve. Similar appearance, but eldar are something completely different from humans, you should compare them too much. From what I understand as far as the dark eldar grown in testtubes, they're accelerated.

Quote :
3) Besides politically arranged marriages, do regular marriages occur? I don't mean romantic marriages but rather ones of convenience, such as for security reasons. I can't tell from the fluff whether such things would be considered useful to a Dark Eldar or whether the concept is just considered too silly for them.
When I think about it, every fluff I've ever read about the eldar, I've never encountered the word marriage, it's safe to assume such a thing doesn't exist in the eldar society. Thing is craftworlds have paths, those paths mean major differences. You may be friends with somebody while he's on the same path, but when you both chose you may be separated completely, though some do keep deep connections with some other eldar. Eldar relationships are extremely complicated, if you think human girls are complicated, then you've seen nothing yet if you try to analyse eldar relations.
Now in Commorragh and amonst corsairs, they do whatever they want, marriages, there's no need to them, you sleep with who you want.
Now as far as reproduction dark eldar way, it's a very dark taboo subject, but as you can expect with the dark eldar, a male eldar that wants to take a female dark eldar, and he's stronger, he'll just impose himself into her.
Eldar do care about their kids somewhat, but COmmorraghians have nannies and from what I can understand even surrogate utero to grow the baby in.

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PostSubject: Re: More Background Questions   More Background Questions I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 03 2013, 20:37

They are like my Spartan friends in that. Every citizen kid will get a decent upbringing...If they survive it.
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