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PostSubject: Some quick stupid questions   Some quick stupid questions I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 13 2013, 10:38

what is the power source of Dark Eldar Vehicles?

Does anyone use the Webway aside from the Eldar? (I know the Luminati can get to the Dark Library; so I assume they use the webway)

If the Harlequins have the secret of avoiding SHE-who-thirsts, then why aren't all Eldar Harlies??
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PostSubject: Re: Some quick stupid questions   Some quick stupid questions I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 13 2013, 15:04

1. Anti-gravity ribbing and turbo-boosters. No deeper clarification has ever been offered that I am aware of.

2. The Illuminati "use" the Webway because the Eldar escort them through it. The Old Ones created it, the Eldar still use it because it's like a post apocalyptic world and someone left them a car, they can't build one but are skilled enough to keep it running...mostly. The Emperor once tried to steal it, but lulzfailed because Magnus is a twat and The Emperor is all seeing, but a bit of a prat when it comes to communicating simple information with others. I am unaware of any race other than Eldar really using the Webway in current fluff.

3. Their "secret" method is mostly rumor, and seems to be based on Cegorach absorbing their souls instead. This is still different from how it used to be for Eldar souls, so it's still something unusual. Eldar probably don't do it because not everyone has it in them to serve the Laughing God, DE don't do it mostly because I imagine they would consider it just a different type of enslavement - they want to do their own thing, not serve a failed Eldar God. Also, there is little indication that ol' Ceggy is offering it to everyone, maybe he's quite selective and will only save those he foresses as useful to him in some manner.

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PostSubject: Re: Some quick stupid questions   Some quick stupid questions I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 13 2013, 16:18

2. To add to thor, the Emperor didnt try and steal it persay, he tried to make his own because the Eldar refused to let mankind use the webway. And yes it lulzfailed, but that was because he couldnt build it fast enough with the hordes of daemons trying to get to the workers.

3. The ritual seems to involve the Solitaire as well. its almost as if the bonding process puts all of Slaanesh's focus and ire from the others onto the Solitaire, but how this works has never been explained.

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PostSubject: Re: Some quick stupid questions   Some quick stupid questions I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 13 2013, 17:01

2. The demons got in because Magnus opened the door and was all like 'Hey, yo, remember when you told me not to do something for vague reasons, I did it anyway...oh, wait, now you'll tell me the specific reasons and I'll see the error of my ways? Good timing, Pops!'

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PostSubject: Re: Some quick stupid questions   Some quick stupid questions I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 13 2013, 18:10

I love how GW tries and pass over that. Why would the Emporer, the strongest psyker in the universe, not just tell his sons straight out "hey, dont do that because daemons exist. And leave me alone, Im busy trying to make sure we never have to use warp travel again."

GW and its plot holes... but then again no good story is without them

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PostSubject: Re: Some quick stupid questions   Some quick stupid questions I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 13 2013, 18:23

I still love the Dornian Heresy just for the Angron part wherein they make the World Eater's a loyalist chapter by simply inserting common sense.

Emprah: Angron cannot die, let us kidnap him on the eve of battle and leave his battle brothers to die without him!

Horus: Yes, we could do that, or...y'know, why don't we spend five minutes just joining the battle on his side? I mean, basically you and I by ourselves in power armor ought to be able to turn the tide, and we are in command of an entire Crusade fleet of Space marines, y'know, the greatest warriors ever?

Emprah: It's just insane enough to work!

The Magnus thing I can...almost buy...mostly. I think they dropped the ball in the book wherein the Emperor decides to go with secrecy...and then just tells him everything once he screws it up, which seems to leave one wondering why secrecy was needed in the first place. But, back in the day the original concept had to do with somehow telling his sons what he was doing would put the process at risk...somehow...I dunno. Yeah, plot hole.

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PostSubject: Re: Some quick stupid questions   Some quick stupid questions I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 13 2013, 18:55

"40k fluff has long required the emperor to be huge idiot or a huge *Expletive deleted*"

1.  Eldar power sources have never been discussed to my knowledge, their ships tend to use solar sails
2.  Nope, its ours and we knife the crap out of anyone who gets in to it.  Its not so much getting in thats the problem, find a gate, walk in.  Its navigating the place, and not getting shot by any eldar you meet.
3.  All Eldar can avoid slanesh.  Eldar use spirit stones, Harlies are protected by the laughing god, Exodites left before the taint, and Deldar just plan old refuse to die, or at least stay dead.

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PostSubject: Re: Some quick stupid questions   Some quick stupid questions I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 13 2013, 20:02

actually Exodites are still under the pull of Slaanesh, but they have infinity circuits built into their respective planet.

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PostSubject: Re: Some quick stupid questions   Some quick stupid questions I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 13 2013, 20:36

I have always wondered did the harlequins have spirit stones, never really bothered to look up.
I guess they are just the craftworlders specialty now.
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PostSubject: Re: Some quick stupid questions   Some quick stupid questions I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 14 2013, 11:24

sorry boss

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PostSubject: Re: Some quick stupid questions   Some quick stupid questions I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 14 2013, 17:14

Ok, another one, how does the mandrakes balefire work?

They have to have a PT, so its not something they have everyday, they have to be `primed`
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PostSubject: Re: Some quick stupid questions   Some quick stupid questions I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 14 2013, 18:59

They just need to have fed recently, soul fire?

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PostSubject: Re: Some quick stupid questions   Some quick stupid questions I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 14 2013, 21:27

Yeah, my presumption is they eat the soul in some manner and the consumption fuels their fire ability.

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PostSubject: Re: Some quick stupid questions   Some quick stupid questions I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 21 2013, 22:21

And the `drakes are said to have invented the art of soul stealing...Probably the most fascinating thing about them.

How did they teach this to the Other DE, and more importantly, `why` did they share the knowledge? Whats in it for them?

If they hadn't, the other DE would have died and so there would be less competition for souls. (Though I see Mandrakes as needing less sustenance; they are better adapted at soul parasitism, and have more efficient systems)
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PostSubject: Re: Some quick stupid questions   Some quick stupid questions I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 03 2013, 05:46

@Mngwa wrote:
I have always wondered did the harlequins have spirit stones, never really bothered to look up.
I guess they are just the craftworlders specialty now.
They have spirit stones, harlequin tech is similar to craftworld tech, both tech, are basically the same, with a few differences. craftworld and dark eldar tech are still eldar tech, but a lot more different from eachother.

The Black Library is basically a small craftworld. Shuriken pistols, power weapons, all basic eldar tech and yes harlequins do have waystones(spirit stones), just the solitaire has already given his soul willingly to the great enemy. All other souls trapped in the spirit stones are given to the harlequin god, to kind of feed him.
Holo fields used on harlequins are basically smaller versions used on skimmers, titans and flyers. The anti gravity belts are smaller versions of what you find on other vehicles, but frankly craftworld also use that same tech for their hair and other such fashion accessories.
The harlequin kiss is something similar to the warp spider gun, smaller version of course.

If you check older versions to find a harlequin codex, you'll see they had venoms, falcons, wraithlords, all normal craftworld tech. (the craftworld venom, like the corsair venoms are very different from the dark eldar version)

Quote :

1.  Eldar power sources have never been discussed to my knowledge, their ships tend to use solar sails
I can't say thre exact location for this fluff, but I know it's a real fact: they use some kind of slave oil, it's not said how it's made, how long it lasts, etc... but even eldar vehicles do have fuel, much more advanced than the human ones of course, they last a lot longer. Slaves are litterally used for everything (even food for lower Commorraghians), even when they die. The thing about solar sails is right. Another thing mentioned in the codex: some kind of "winds" found in the webway, just read the Aethersail entry. The sail isn't just decoration.

Quote :
Anti-gravity ribbing and turbo-boosters.
The boosters are something close to what other races use, fuel is way more advanced and efficient of course. The anti gravity generators make a huge difference as they get rid of some of the friction and actually do generate some speed on their own. Unparallelled antigravity with unparallelled jet engines make the eldar the fasters race in the universe as far a vehicles, flyers, etc...

Quote :
Does anyone use the Webway aside from the Eldar?
Far from being just the eldar, dark eldar and harlequins. Exodites can use it too, though most of them haven't been into it.
Necrons have also found some unreliable ways to travel through the webway, though not as reliable as the eldar, lets just say a bonus way of travelling, nothing close to what the eldar use it as.
Daemons penetrate the webway, same for chaos worshipper, even eldar at times, but accident or escorted by other eldar.
There are holes, in theory most races have probably been into the webway even if it was by accident, even orcs if you read fluff lol.
Now Like it was said, the Old ones created the webway, now there's also a race called the slann, it's not 100% sure the old ones and the slann were one and the same race, but a lot of speculations points towards that fact. Now if they're not one and the same race, you've got another race to add => the slann.
Now a race that used the webway even before the eldar as well: the Hrud, basically the skaven of 40k, old fluff says they were the ones who showed the eldar webway tech.

Quote :
If the Harlequins have the secret of avoiding SHE-who-thirsts, then why aren't all Eldar Harlies??
Huge differences in way to living, who to worship and serve, etc...

It's not a secret and it's not a definitive way to escape her either. Spirit stones like the craftworlders, except like I said, the souls are given to the harlequin god.
Difference with craftwolders, they're put into the matrix of the craftworld to wander forever amongst the other souls of the deceased. Some sililar but smaller scale is done on exodite worlds, they're put into the world spirit, some kind of huge matrix going all over the exodite planet, smaller scale because of the smaller numbers of the exodites and lower tech because it's so huge with so little amount of souls. You can talk to deceased spirits on a craftworld if you've got the skills, this can't be done on the exodite version.

Now dark eldar have a different thing to stop the great enemy, but works too, just keep killing, feeding off suffering and you keep your soul. In theory a dark eldar that dies alone, his soul goes to the great enemy. If he's not alone, usually some other dark eldar will leech his soul and absorb it, no waste, souls are some kind of energy/food.

Now interesting thing to know this soul leeching does stop slaanesh for some time, not 100% perfect, but a spirit stone can be destroyed leaving you exposed, evne harlequins aren't 100% safe. Now corsairs can go either way, follow the eldar or dark eldar way, or switch from time to time, it's allowed.

Now like I said, one major exception, the solitair, he gives his soul up without a fight.

Now interesting thing about souls: they give more power, whether you're a dark eldar or a regular eldar. Cegorach gets tronger the more harlequin souls are given to him. Ynead the eldar god of death get stronger as more eldar perish, it's some kind of manifestation close to what chaos gods are, weirdly enough. Major dark eldar leaders also become more powerful the more souls they consume. Asdrubael Vect for example should become some kind of a mini god himself when he dies, if somebody manages to bring him down. The dark eldar also do have their mini gods.


Now back to why aren't all eldar harlequins: Not all eldar are warriors, you do have eldar civilians on the craftworlds, on the exodite worlds you also have some eldar that are not warriors.
All harlequins are warriors, even fairly exceptional warriors in fact. It's clear that not everyone is good enough and not everyone wants to merge with Cegorach either probably. Harlequins aren't the ultimate answer, still plenty of options. I'm sure Harlequins are recruted from all other eldar factions, though a true dark eldar would probably rather keep his position of power rather than going to workship and later fuse with some eldar god.


Quote :
And the `drakes are said to have invented the art of soul stealing...Probably the most fascinating thing about them.

How did they teach this to the Other DE, and more importantly, `why` did they share the knowledge? Whats in it for them?

If they hadn't, the other DE would have died and so there would be less competition for souls
No clue where you got this info, never seen this. But what I know is: Mandrakes appeared about the same time as the dark eldar, maybe even later, they 're very mysterious in any case. But no, nobody did have to teach the dark eldar anything, they just noticed. Commorragh is a dangerous place, even 10k years ago, murders were still being commited then and even before. All dark eldar always had the power from pain, like vampires know they're supposed to suck blood, DE knew from the start they would have to feed from suffering.

It's just a theory of mine, but most people agree with it: Mandrakes are some kind of uper stage/higher evolution of the power from pain all dark eldar have.


Quote :

GW and its plot holes... but then again no good story is without them
Best sci fi/fantasy storyline ever. It's not complete, not the point to make it complete or perfect either, but is so much better than anything else. Check out other sci fi franchises: all shorter or just childish. 2 major examples: Star wars, like a simpler version of 40k, less violent, more disney like. Star trek, not bad but same problem was star wars, too limited, not ambitious enough, not enough guts and glory.

The only reason why 40k isn't bigger than star wars or star trek is because GW want to keep this a small fanbased community, open to a select few, where GW keeps dictating all the rules.
They chose to not expand to keep power over their original products and universe, this is one of the reasons why the quality of the storyline is superior to most other sci fi/fantasy stuff.

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PostSubject: Re: Some quick stupid questions   Some quick stupid questions I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 04 2013, 18:50

@Khain mor wrote:

Best sci fi/fantasy storyline ever. It's not complete, not the point to make it complete or perfect either, but is so much better than anything else. Check out other sci fi franchises: all shorter or just childish.
I'm not sure whether you're oblivious to or just ignoring the fact that 40k's base fluff is basically just a big mash-up of the sci-fi franchises that its original writers happened to like back in the 80's. Dune and Foundation being two of the more significant ones. I read the Foundation series a while ago and I wasn't really able to enjoy it because a lot of its ideas I had already come across in 40k fluff; probably the most blatant example would be the tech-priesthood run by the First Foundation in the 1st book. Similarly the Navigators and the Navis Nobilite are pretty much a re-write of the Spacing Guild from Dune.

Yeah, SW Expanded Universe is mostly plain retarded, but so is some of the stuff in 40k fluff. The fluff regarding the genetic modifications of Space Marines, for instance, looks like something a 12-year-old came up with to accompany a drawing of some OC superhero of his, then adding some more as his friends one-upped him. "Oh yeah!? Well Ultraboy can spit acid and breathe underwater!"

I guess the reason they haven't tried tidying up the fluff is because it's hard to retcon big chunks of fluff this far down the line. The DE don't suffer from the same kind of early edition silliness because they came in a bit later and didn't have that much fluff to begin with so it's been easier to expand it in lines of the more serious approach GW has been taking after the earlier editions. That's actually why I'm into Dark Eldar myself; while their basic concept is "dark elves in space", once you really get into their fluff, they're quite unlike anything else in any sci-fi setting.

@Khain mor wrote:
The only reason why 40k isn't bigger than star wars or star trek is because GW want to keep this a small fanbased community, open to a select few, where GW keeps dictating all the rules.
They chose to not expand to keep power over their original products and universe, this is one of the reasons why the quality of the storyline is superior to most other sci fi/fantasy stuff.
I'd disagree. The reason why 40k isn't bigger than SW or ST is because its primary venue is still the tabletop game, and miniature wargames are expensive (stack GW's reality-challenged pricing policies on top of that). I also don't think GW's intrested in keeping a small fanbase at all, since they're quite actively pursuing expansion into other venues such as video games, as well as trying to appeal to more mainstream audiences (read: kids) with stuff like the new big mechas as of late.


Also, AFAIK Harlequins are bound to the Laughing God by a ritual, thus escaping Slaanesh's grasp and not needing spirit stones. There seem to be conflicting sources, since I've also heard some people insist they get possessed by daemons and then exorcised sort of like the Illuminati. That would actually make sense too, given the Illuminati's connection with the Eldar - the Harlequins could have been the ones to teach them the possession-exorcism trick in the first place. In any case, I'm pretty sure being out of the reach of Slaanesh is part of their gimmick.
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PostSubject: Re: Some quick stupid questions   Some quick stupid questions I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 04 2013, 20:01

Plot holes are *generally* intentional
The C'tan were a throw away reference in second edition Codex Imperialis

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PostSubject: Re: Some quick stupid questions   Some quick stupid questions I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2013, 23:41

Another Story 40K is based upon is the Nemesis the warlock strip in 2000Ad comic...I think the writers were connected to GW in the early days.

not much online, sadly, but you can find compilations in places like Abebooks.
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