HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityFAQUsergroupsRegisterLog in
Share | 
 

 The proud haemonculi present you: The Ghoul!

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Mngwa
Wych
avatar

Posts : 955
Join date : 2013-01-26
Location : Stadi

PostSubject: The proud haemonculi present you: The Ghoul!   Wed Sep 04 2013, 09:05

So, once again a new idea that has been boiling inside my head.
The first idea that led to this unit was the idea of ignoring overwatch. Next came the thought of a new coven creation, and then something that is either slow or very fast.

So, I present thee:
Ghouls
WS4 BS1 S4 T4 W2 I5 A2 LD7 Sv6+

Basically, as you can see, it is a slightly weaker grotesque, with better initiative and leadership.
Their unit size would be the same, and they would also be Elites, so they are very much like grotesques.
In appearance, they are like tall, thin wracks, with very tightly stretched skins and then lots of different weapons. I was kind of thinking like the claws Wolverine has? Among other kind of spiky things. Anyway, they would count as two poisoned (+4) weapons, like wracks.

Then comes what makes them special. The special rules:
Bulky, Power from Pain, Altered Physique (no Night vision since why on earth would they need them since they got no shooting weapons!!!! Also no fleet)
and a new rule:
Frenzied Assault.
The ghouls attain a murderous rage, and they directly at the smell of fear... no matter what stands in their path.
At the start of each assault phase, you roll a D6. Before rolling, you must choose to either add a +1 modifier or a -1 modifier.
On a roll of +4 (since you always have to modify it by 1 to either direction, its really +3 or +5), the ghouls target an enemy model with the lowest leadership within 12". If there are more than one enemy models with the lowest leadership (within 12 inch of them), pick the closer one. If there is an equal direction (less than an inch difference), your opponent picks which model it is.
Then, simply, the ghouls charge at the unit that model belongs to, ignoring Line of Sight and terrain between them.
There is no overwatch, and the charge distance is automatically 12".
Simply pick an initial charger from the ghouls and move them into closecombat.
The ghouls have the fearless special rule for that phase.
Then more "if"'s.
If there are no enemy models within 12 inch of the ghouls, the unit suffers 1 hit per each ghoul in that current unit, resolved to themselves. After that, the assault phase continues, and they may charge normally.
If they are inside a transport, and there is an enemy within 12 inch, the ghouls disembark (even if the vehicle had moved flat out) during the assault phase and charge directly from the base of the vehicle, at their target unit, and the vehicle automatically suffers a glancing hit. However, it counts as charging through difficult terrain (so initiative drops, no effect on charge range). If the vehicle is wrecked, it has no further effect on the ghouls.
If they are inside a transport, and there is not an enemy unit within 12 inch, all ghouls in the unit attack each other inside the transport, just like they would attack if they were on foot and not in range of any enemies.




So, im not sure how good this rule could be.
What im now thinking are the following:
- Should these guys be more expensive than grots? Or cheaper?
- Should any characters or squad leaders affect the LD when picking an enemy target (I first thought that no, but it could be)
- Should the Frenzied Assault rule be conferred to any characters joining the ghouls (and if not, would the character prevent them from using it)
- Would this count enemies inside transports/buildings, and if so, how?
- How badly are the Tau going to hate DE if we get a unit like this?

I am so seeing the use for this: load them in a raider, advance them in the middle of the enemy, and pray they charge out of it. They wouldnt even require an IC escort, since they got a better leadership (not that great one though) and no Berserk Rampage.

Thoughts, comments?
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
avatar

Posts : 6626
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

PostSubject: Re: The proud haemonculi present you: The Ghoul!   Wed Sep 04 2013, 09:17

The rules seem very clunky and also to have no logic behind them. Why do they automatically get to charge 12"? Why do they ignore terrain and LOS? Why is there no overwatch? Also, at the end of the day, you're looking at an 'assault' unit that has 2 attacks at WS4 and S4. That's the same as an assault marine, who are not exactly considered to be the cutting edge of melee opponents!

I can see what you're trying to do here but I'm not sure you're going about it the right way. If you're looking for a unit that can ignore overwatch then I'd suggest the humble Mandrake. An ability to emerge from the target unit's shadow (and still assault!!!) that negates overwatch would actually make them useful. Something like:

Shadowstrike
A Mandrake can pull itself into reality straight through another being's shadow, emerging with a hiss to sink its ice-cold claws and teeth into warm flesh
Units composed entirely of models with this special rule may not be targeted by Overwatch fire from any unit that they charge

_________________

You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Mngwa
Wych
avatar

Posts : 955
Join date : 2013-01-26
Location : Stadi

PostSubject: Re: The proud haemonculi present you: The Ghoul!   Wed Sep 04 2013, 10:12

The basic logic in how do these ghouls get to charge 12 inch through any terrain and no overwatch is the idea that they are guided by smell and that they are very angry and driven to fight, even though they are slow moving like grotesques when calmed. I can see it becoming a problem on how do they move to get past impassable or lethal terrain, though...
They have 2 attacks, true. But since they are usually charging, and since they have two poisoned weapons, it would still be 4 attacks wounding on 4's, rerolling T4 and under, and as soon as they get an extra pain token, they reroll wounds also on T5 models, which isn't something assault marines do. But I can see a flaw there too, true. Poison weapons makes them good for high T targets, but yet the special rule is taking them to whatever with low LD...

Mandrakes, I have heard a lot of suggestions for them too such as this. I just figured I wanted something that is also slightly more durable (better T, starts with FnP), with a bit of randomness, and a good psychological weapon-sense.
Also mandrakes dont have poison. Wink

In conclusion I would say that maybe Impassable and Lethal terrain could prevent their charge, but I cant see any other required changes based on what you said.

EDIT: I think it would actually be neat if we would have more than one unit that could ignore overwatch, and mandrakes would of course work great for that as well! That would maybe make wyches less popular though...
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
avatar

Posts : 6626
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

PostSubject: Re: The proud haemonculi present you: The Ghoul!   Wed Sep 04 2013, 11:26

Sorry, I hadn't noticed the part about 2 poisoned weapons, which does indeed make them better than assault marines, although that is partially offset by their poorer armour save.

Still not convinced about the Frenzied Assault rule. There are plenty of fast frenzied units out there but I don't think any of them have a guaranteed 12" charge, especially out of a transport that has gone flat out! In a normal Dawn of War deployment that's a 54" first turn charge range. In Hammer & Anvil deployment you have a 66" first turn charge, which would be increased by half the length of a Raider if you deploy side-on and then pivot before movement. That's enough to get anything that isn't completely hugging their table edge, guaranteed, with no overwatch. It's a bit much just because they are feeling angry!

_________________

You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Crazy_Irish
Sybarite


Posts : 481
Join date : 2011-05-28
Location : Huntsville, Al

PostSubject: Re: The proud haemonculi present you: The Ghoul!   Wed Sep 04 2013, 12:04

I'm sorry but I think it's just too much. Sure, you do not like overwatch, especially from tau, but that unit would not fix it.

I have found that if people craft units, they often tend to give them to many or to complex rules. Also what I don't like about tau is, that they ignore core mechanics of the game and you solution to also have a that ignores core mechanics (12" charge) even though I must say I like the idea of mandrakes ignoring overwatch.

And one thing, you sad, they should not have Night sight, as they do not have shooting attack. Wracks have night sight. That is because they live in pretty poor light conditions, as should the gouls.

_________________
Crazy Commorragh NEW Blogpost! Royal Blood - A new leader rises...

...What about a Bastion made out of Guardsmen as some form of sick sarcasm?...Or a Fortress of Redemption made out of Dark Angels - Sky Serpent
Back to top Go down
Mngwa
Wych
avatar

Posts : 955
Join date : 2013-01-26
Location : Stadi

PostSubject: Re: The proud haemonculi present you: The Ghoul!   Wed Sep 04 2013, 12:13

Quote :
In a normal Dawn of War deployment that's a 54" first turn charge range. In Hammer & Anvil deployment you have a 66" first turn charge
Well, it is not a complete rule! Over 40" range of assaulting is a bit too much, now that I can finally think of the math. As an addition, Flat out could prevent the charge then, bringing down a bit of their range. This still makes them able to charge a lot of things, but these guys wouldn't even be that good in a few numbers as grotesques, so they would just suicide themselves anyway if they had a transport. Also, it is a +3 D6 roll chance to charge out of the raider, and if it fails, they are all probably going to die.
Well, are they overpowered in any other way? I cant say should they be more expensive than grots or not, and point cost would affect a lot.

And I do like the idea of something wrecking a raider when they charge out of it! Razz

Quote :
they often tend to give them to many or to complex rules
Frenzied Assault may sound a little complex when there is me explaining it... (Seriously, I think those GW-guys who write the special rules always make it sound so clear and understandable)
But I can see the basic idea very clear, and I dont think it is that complex.

Quote :
And one thing, you sad, they should not have Night sight, as they do not have shooting attack. Wracks have night sight. That is because they live in pretty poor light conditions, as should the gouls.
I imagined them to use mostly their nose, perhaps even that they wouldn't have eyes at all?
I also get annoyed that grotesques have night vision and no way to use it. Even with wracks, the only occasion is an acothyst with a hexrifle.
Back to top Go down
 
The proud haemonculi present you: The Ghoul!
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

OTHER DARK ELDAR DISCUSSION

 :: Rules Development
-
Jump to: