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Sabre DeC
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PostSubject: Screw the Tau...   Tue Sep 03 2013, 16:06

No seriously though I get pitted against Tau very often because my roommate plays them.  Don't get me wrong they're a cool army (a little cheese in my opinion but no more than Necrons or Grey Knights)....I just think they're the worst possible match up for us. The Tools for Tau board is extremely helpful, buy really
if you want to win against them being handled by a really smart player, just start sacrificing dice because if the dice gods aren't in your absolute favor....MARKET LIGHT MARKET LIGHT MARKET LIGHT DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA!

When we started playing 40k my husband picked Nids, the roommate picked Tau, and I picked Dark Eldar. Let's just say my husband and I really questioned our skill as players. It took talking to other players to realize I was really set up with the highest learning curve army, against the most difficult opponent in the game, and my husband was playing the bottom tier army for the edition. The roommate however is 4 for 4 at the local escalation league. Lol and he gets posed at us for telling him his army is broken. He gets offended that we don't attribute the winning to his brilliance. (Sigh)

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Tue Sep 03 2013, 16:29

Tau certainly seem to have all the tools to ruin our day. The traditional advice of trying to get them into assault is much harder to achieve now due to overwatch and supporting fire. Not sure what the answer is to be honest.

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Sabre DeC
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Tue Sep 03 2013, 16:45

I've had rotten luck due to them also having the ability to put night vision on almost everything they play. So one of our biggest abilities is pretty much nullified...between that and the ridiculous range of their weapons and the fact that they can make our cover evaporate....

I don't mean to whine. I guess I am though. Just really hard to not bail and find another cheese army to play with just for moral...ah well.....It's OK! GONNA WRECK FACE!

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Tue Sep 03 2013, 20:42

Try spamming 36" weaponry (I prefer splinterborn in a dual cannon venom) and using los on his longest ranged unit. I did this to one of my friends and he conceded on turn 3. The Tau have super range but don't overestimate their range as splintervenoms with NS can sit outside their infantries range all day and mess them up.. If you're not playing with atleast a moderate amount of terrain (preferably los blocking terrain) then you are pretty much giving him the win at deployment.

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ecam
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Tue Sep 03 2013, 22:04

One way to assault them and its not ideal but it works is to separate a hQ I.e a hemonculus from the squad you want to charge send him in first to die in over watch and then the squad charges for no damage
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Omnicide
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Tue Sep 03 2013, 23:24

Read up on mushkilla's vs tau battle reports, such as this one: http://www.thedarkcity.net/t6173-br22-the-black-buzzards-vs-tau-rematch-1500pts

he has more linked in his signature
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Sabre DeC
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Wed Sep 04 2013, 02:10

Thanks!

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Omnicide
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Wed Sep 04 2013, 03:04

No prob, i stumbled upon them a few nights ago and read em all, the first game he gets plastered, it was first game vs new tau, but seeing how well he adapts afterwards, even against some really absurd lists made me feel really good bout picking DE
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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Wed Sep 04 2013, 18:31

Screw the Tau indeed. If it's any comfort, playing with Dark Eldar makes you better. You can win against them, and it's that much more satisfying when you do, because it means you are clever! Smile
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Dark_Kindred
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Wed Sep 04 2013, 20:51

@Barking Agatha wrote:
You can win against them, and it's that much more satisfying when you do, because it means you are clever! Smile
Or lucky.

Having used that strategy multiple times, I agree wholeheartedly with ecam. There are a few problems with that strategy (extra kill points, expensive point wise, melee orientation) but it works pretty well and is also effective against other armies.

Focus firing down key elements of the army is pretty important. Keeping range is also important. Around turn 3 is when you want to spill some blood in close combat.

Also, knowledge of your list design as well as your enemy's would be good for more concrete advice.

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Sabre DeC
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Thu Sep 05 2013, 01:42

My current list (includes Forgeworld) can be found here: http://www.thedarkcity.net/t7679-i-finally-won-yeeeeeaaa

Lol don't laugh at the title. Razz

His list includes (usually...he caters to whomever he's playing) marker drones, fire warriors, hammerhead, path finders, remoras, crisis suits, and a riptide. Usually...

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Thu Sep 05 2013, 07:09

He tailors his list after knowing who he's fighting? That's lousy sportsmanship in my opinion.

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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Thu Sep 05 2013, 19:35

@The Red King wrote:
He tailors his list after knowing who he's fighting? That's lousy sportsmanship in my opinion.
Not really. It's different if you're in a club, or you play in tournaments, but if you play casually with a small group of family and friends, it's kind of what you do. Of course you know who you're playing against because it's always the same one or two people.
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fuhrmaaj
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Fri Sep 06 2013, 20:47

Some units to try out if you're still stuck:

- transports with night shields, they shoot 36" inches at units which can only shoot 24-30" due to night shields
- grotesques in a raider can soak a lot of overwatch fire
- a beast pack with Khymerae and the Baron moving through cover for a 3+ save, if the Tau strips the cover with markers then they don't get +2 BS
- reaver jetbikes are decent as well, getting a 3+ cover save when turbo boosting (same rule as above but you don't have armour); try to keep them out of LOS until you can blade vane and get a pain token, reavers with a pain token are incredibly resilient and decent in melee especially if they are supporting other units

Another thing to consider is that if you have a resilient unit like a beast pack assaulting the gunline, you might as well issue a disordered charge because the other units are going to shoot you anyway with Support Fire. You lose the bonus attack but you should be fine.

Overwatch only hits on a 6 unless Pathfinders can Support Fire, so if you issue the charge from cover then you will get your cover save too (5+ or 4+).
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Sabre DeC
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Sat Sep 07 2013, 16:58

@Barking Agatha wrote:
@The Red King wrote:
He tailors his list after knowing who he's fighting? That's lousy sportsmanship in my opinion.
Not really. It's different if you're in a club, or you play in tournaments, but if you play casually with a small group of family and friends, it's kind of what you do. Of course you know who you're playing against because it's always the same one or two people.
See I kind of agree with Agatha...plus he does cater in the escalation leagues at our game store. (Pretty much a tournament where you know who you're playing before hand)....I think it's back handed.

Also- what keeps him from stripping cover AND getting the +2 Ballistic Skill? He does both to me all the time....

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Sat Sep 07 2013, 18:58

Can you post your list?

We might tick a bit on that.

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Sabre DeC
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Sun Sep 08 2013, 02:45


* Duke Sliscus the Serpent (150pts) (with Warriors)
Blast Pistol, Combat Drugs, Ghostplate Armour, Plasma Grenades, Shadowfield, The Serpent's Bite (x2)


* Haemonculus (230pts)
* Haemonculus (with Warriors)
Close Combat Weapon, Shattershard, Splinter Pistol
* Haemonculus (with Trueborn)
Close Combat Weapon, Orb of Despair, Splinter Pistol
* Haemonculus (with Trueborn)
Huskblade, Liquifier Gun, Splinter Pistol


*3 Kabalite Trueborn (167pts)
2x Dark Lance, Haywire Grenades, Splinter Rifle
* Venom
Flickerfield, Nightshield, 2 Splinter Cannons

*3 Kabalite Trueborn (167pts)
2x Dark Lance, Haywire Grenades, Splinter Rifle
* Venom
Flickerfield, Nightshield, 2 Splinter Cannons


*10 Kabalite Warriors (109pts) (in Tantalus)
Splinter Cannon


* 5 Wracks (Troops) (130pts)
Liquifier Gun
*Venom
Flickerfield, Nightshield, Retrofire Jets, Twin Linked Splinter Rifles


* 5 Wracks (Troops) (130pts)
Liquifier Gun
*Venom
Flickerfield, Nightshield, Retrofire Jets, Twin Linked Splinter Rifles

*9 Wyches (200pts)
* Hekatrix with Phantasm Grenade Launcher/Haywire Grenades
* Raider
Haywire Grenades

* Wyches (200pts)
* Hekatrix with Phantasm Grenade Launcher/Haywire Grenades
* Raider
* 9x Wyches
Haywire Grenades

* Reaper [IA40K] (145pts)
(Night Vision)
Enhanced Aethersails, Nightshield, Storm Vortex Projector (Haywire, Kill-Shock)


* Reaper [IA40K] (145pts)
(Night Vision)
Enhanced Aethersails, Nightshiel, Storm Vortex Projector (Haywire, Kill-Shock)


* Tantalus [IA40K] (225pts)
(Deep Strike, Night Vision)
Enhanced Aethersails, Flickerfield, Nightshield, 2x Pulse-Disintegrator, Scythevane

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DEfan
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Mon Sep 09 2013, 07:58

I have just had a good solid thrashing by the Tau. I look back and reflect on what went wrong and I have to say that if it was Sunday again, I'd sternly remind myself that the Wyches were supposed to be aimed at vehicles. Things were favourable until turn 2 started and supporting fire ruined my day. I think your list is awesome... so many cool models... but I am not convinced about the purpose of wracks. Perhaps you could spread points by dropping wracks, minimising your wych squad size and maximizing the troop count while increasing your raider transport count. Why? In my game, my ravagers were hopeless against Tau disruption pod equipped vehicles. 3+ cover is absurd until it is assaulted into.

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Black Death
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Mon Sep 09 2013, 09:15

So far the best I've come up with against the Tau is 6 10 man warrior units with dark lance with raider/ night shields and flicker fields, 3 3 lance ravagers, trueborn lancers and fill in whatever is needed for points and being that we can pre measure, make sure I'm over 30" away so even if he moves 6" he is still at 24" , not 30, to hit making him short, then we move forward and unload splinter rifles and lances and hope to do enough damage for them to test, fail and fall back. It is hard but distance is best, hard to do with 24" battle field but can be achieved. Irritating but sometimes a major onslaught not the best thing which sux since we are supposed a lightning fast army.

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Sabre DeC
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Thu Sep 12 2013, 15:46

DEfan, the wracks were there for survivability honestly...the last long from just the one higher toughness. Verses Tau, that wouldn't be as good since most of their weapons are S5+.  Might change one to wyches...

Black Death, I have had ZERO luck trying to keep the Tau out of range. They have several 70" weapons! Also, assuming FW is allowed, do you guys think the Ravagers
Or the Reapers are better? I tend to prefer the Reapers...kill shock is amazing.

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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Fri Sep 13 2013, 04:47

Since we're on the subject...

Today I played against a Tau army and they slaughtered me. I didn't even intend to play with this person, but he seemed a bit sad because there was no one to play with at the store and I offered to play with him just to be nice. I regret that now, because he is a very disagreeable sort and also, he smelled pooey. (For a moment I was scared that it might be me. I wondered how on earth I could have managed to get such a smell on me! Then he said something and I realised that it was his breath. How the hell do you get pooey breath?)

Anyway, I asked to take a look at his list afterward and wrote it down. I must have missed something because it's about 100 points short:

* Commander (Multi-spectrum sensor suite, Command and Control Node, Puretide Engram Neurochip, Neuroweb System Jammer, Vectored Retro-thrusters, Blacksun Filter)

* XV104 Riptide (Heavy Burst Cannon, Twin Linked Smart Missile System, Early Warning Override, Counterfire Defence System)

* XV104 Riptide (Ion Accelerator, Twin Linked Smart Missile System, Early Warning Override, Stimulant Injector)

* 3 x 6 Fire Warriors plus Devilfish Transport

* 3 x 4 Pathfinders

* Sky Ray Missile Defence Gunship

* 3 Broadside Shas'ui each with Twin Linked Heavy Rail Rifle, Twin Linked Smart Missile System, and Target Lock

* 3 Broadside Shas'ui each with Twin Linked High Yield Missile Pod, Twin Linked Smart Missile System, and Target Lock

And this was mine:

* Belfrit (Archon with Huskblade, Blast Pistol, Ghostplate Armour, Combat Drugs, Shadow Field)

* Morbith (Haemonculus with Liquefier Gun, Shattershard)

* Terrise (Haemonculus with Hexrifle)

* 2 x 5 Kabalite Warriors with blaster + Raider with Enchanced Aethersails, Flickerfield and Splinter Racks

* 5 Wyches with Haywire Grenades + Raider with Enhanced Aethersails, Flickerfield

* 5 Wyches with Haywire Grenades + Venom with Splinter Cannon

* 3 Trueborn with blasters + Venom with Splinter Cannon

* 4 Grotesques with Liquefier Gun + Aberration with Flesh Gauntlet + Raider with Enhanced Aethersails and Flickerfield + Disintegrator

* 3 Reaver Jetbikes with blaster

* 3 Reaver Jetbikes with blaster

* Ravager with Flickerfield and Dark Lances

* Cronos with Spirit Probe and Spirit Vortex

* Talos with Haywire Blaster and Liquefier Gun

As I said, it was a massacre. I yielded on the 5th turn with only 3 warriors and Terrise alive. Below is a picture of (I think) the 3th turn:



and



What you're seeing there is my last hurrah against pooey. I had destroyed the Sky Ray and one of his transports. The Venoms killed one of the Broadsides up on that building and left his Commander with only one wound (here he cheated by taking saves on a 2+; he later claimed he hadn't done that, but he absolutely did!). The XV104 that you can see is down to 3 wounds (the Venoms again) and the other one was killed outright by Belfrit with her Huskblade. The two Reavers in front of the building have just rallied after failing a morale test, and I was hoping they might survive to charge, but they never had a chance, since everything around them has Ignore Cover and can individually target whatever they like.

So, any thoughts?
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DEfan
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Fri Sep 13 2013, 13:07

Hmmm- I would need to look at my Tau codex to remind me, but I believe for starters that the commander has too many options attached. I'm guessing he did the Raven with Riptide combo to take away your jink saves, which is kind of an exploitation of a rule loophole. Because Rippy can get drones, so it follows that the MC rules do not apply and ICs can join him. I think that is BS. I think the riptides may have too many equipment options either way. I thought the limit was 3.
Without a doubt, a rough time for the DE. When I think back to my loss and how I'd placed objectives, I should have bullied the units that were separated from supporting fire. Did he castle? If so, like my opponent did, the mad raider rush I did only fed him easy kills. There were exposed units in the picture- FW on the right flank. Good LOS blocking boulder and solid wall ruin. Did you try and focus a lot of your force on a little of his, or did you attack the whole line? I attacked the whole line and supporting fire cut me to shreds.

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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Fri Sep 13 2013, 17:46

The Commander was on the second floor of the tall building with the Broadsides (you can see one of them standing on top of it). The idea is that the rail rifles get 'Ignores Cover' and re-roll misses (which was redundant in this case, since they are already twin-linked).

He deployed pretty much they way you see. The unpainted Riptide near the centre would jump forward, use its 'smart' missiles, and then jump back. Everything else is right where it started. One unit of Broadsides on the building, behind some pathfinders; aother unit behind the barricades in the centre, with more pathfinders; transports on both sides of that; and the sky ray in the corner.

Of course I tried to focus on one side. As you can see, two transports, the sky ray, and one of the riptides are gone. The problem is that as soon as you get within 30 inches of all those Broadsides, they will each fire at a different unit and kill it with smart missiles that don't care about cover or LOS.

My raiders were all dead on Turn 1 (he had the initiative), except the one with archon Belfrit and the grotesques. On Turn 2 she charged and killed the riptide that was supposedly 'exposed' and 'separated' from the rest. On Turn 3 she was killed, even though she was out of LoS and in Cover, because those things don't matter to them! She would have had to roll 12 saves without getting a single 1.

If I had it to do over again I think I would mad rush everything up the right side, instead of trying to hide behind all of that terrain, since they basically ignore it anyway. Not that I could have, with all of my raiders gone, but with whatever I had left. It beats just standing there while being shot at and pretending that terrain matters.
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clively
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Fri Sep 13 2013, 19:19

Barking Agatha,
That list of yours looks really weak. I don't see very much cohesion and I do see a lot of wasted points.

For example, I'm not sure why you took the two groups of 3 bikes. Bikes do MUCH better in larger units and certainly would have been better off combining those two groups.

Why both a cronos and talos? They are slow moving models and really to be used as a distraction unit or as a way to discourage the enemy from getting close to objectives on your side. Next, I don't think blasters on warriors are worthwhile. If you want blasters, focus on trueborn. Warriors should be all about the poison shots. Mainly because a rifle is better at taking out MC's while anything you'd want a blaster for cant be harmed by the other 4 guys in the unit: wasted potential.

On the whole I'm surprised you made it to turn 5 at all. If you want a close combat army, then beasts are pretty much required. If you want a shooting army then look at making each unit effective at a given range/target then work on your strategy for how to get those to work together.

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Sabre DeC
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the Tau...   Fri Sep 13 2013, 19:57

@Barking Agatha wrote:
It beats just standing there while being shot at and pretending that terrain matters.
Exactly my thoughts...I just don't know what to do until we get a book....

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