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 Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight

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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Wed Aug 14 2013, 19:03

I'll admit it, I want a wraithknight.
They just look fantastic.
Couple of shoulder sun cannons, a star cannon and shield, or perhaps keep the arm guns and add the shoulders, hugging cover.

It also covers a few areas we lack, high S shooting, and it looks awesome.

Anyway, we need to pay a troop and a hq tax to have the beauty.
So I thought, why not something we cant do, scoring jetbikes with some fighting ability
So, Archon, Bikers, Warlock, lack any real AT, but should be functional in combat, and good for last turn scoring.

Any thoughts?

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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Wed Aug 14 2013, 20:09

Unfortunately, you can't bring the warlock, as thats primary detachment only.

Autarch is a good choice for modifying reserves. You could also consider a farseer. Guide/Prescience and anything on the Telepathy tree is amazing support.
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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Wed Aug 14 2013, 20:23

The autarch's reserve manipulation doesn't work if he's in your allied detachment. Scoring jetbikes are awesome, and 3 with a cannon cost 1 more point than a min unit of rangers, which I think is the next most useful and cheap option for allied troops. The obvious autarch build with the bike, mantle, and laser lance definitely has something going for it, but I do love the jetbike farseer. A lvl3 psyker on a bike for less than 120 points is criminal.

Thing about the wraithknight is as a Monstrous Creature it can still only fire two weapons, even though it can technically equip four. The standard loadout for them with the two heavy wraithcannons is the cheapest and still good in combat. You're losing out on the shield and blinding gimmick but can get that save from area terrain anyway. If you want to take the suncannon you may as well bring a scatter laser; same range, same strength, and gives you laser lock. That's 60 more points. If you go with the sword and board you can toss some guns on it so it has shooting for cheap. I think the sword and a couple of shuricannons are only 40 more points. I don't have one yet, but if I had to choose I think I'd go with just the two heavy wraithcannons, even though I love the way the suncannon and shield look Razz
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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Wed Aug 14 2013, 21:18

Bugger hadnt thought of that with the weapons!

But the jetbike autarch works at least, oh well, maybe two heavy cannons i the way to go

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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Thu Aug 15 2013, 14:54

you really want a jetseer so you can get guide/prescience and twin link things... he is far better as an ally HQ than a autarch

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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Thu Aug 15 2013, 20:26

Unless he can twin link my entire army, not interested. I dont have anything that a small boost has a big effect on.
Whereas I could use a second hammer, especialy one thats fast on its own

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fuhrmaaj
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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Sun Aug 25 2013, 15:56

I wouldn't call the Autarch a "second hammer", he's more of a rolled up newspaper. If you're not putting him in a squad then I think the best you can hope for with MOLG is to get in the backfield and use the Fusion Gun on vehicles. The mobility might get you onto rear armour and the laser lance is still good so you can assault the vehicle after using the Fusion Gun.

If you do put him in a squad, I'm not even sure what he would work well with. You could try the tested and true Beast pack where he might have a positive impact.

Either way, there is no HQ that feels like an HQ tax more than the Autarch these days. I wish GW would just let Allies manipulate reserves rolls so the the Autarch would have a use in getting a CWE/DE air force onto the board. I don't know how effective it would be, but it sounds fun and would give the Autarch a real purpose.
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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Sun Aug 25 2013, 17:10

Oh he was going to go in a GJB squad, which my understanding is now has a profile a lot more like our reavers?

They arent going to beat a 700pt Draigo Wing, but they should be able to pour fire in to a tactical squad and them kill it in a turn of two of CC no?

Perhaps hammer is the wrong word.

The way I looked at it.
An Archon on a bike with an agoniser
An Arena Champ with agoniser
8 Reavers

They should kill seven marines when they get the charge.

I figured Eldar should be able to do something near similar

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fuhrmaaj
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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Sun Aug 25 2013, 22:33

@DominicJ wrote:
Oh he was going to go in a GJB squad, which my understanding is now has a profile a lot more like our reavers?
They have similar profiles but operate completely differently. Windriders are a shooting units and don't really want to be in melee unless they've shot at a unit and now it's down to one or two models. The shooting output is in line with Dire Avengers, but every one in three can get a chin cannon. So if you stick your Autarch in here then you want to gear him for shooting and not melee. Maybe a Reaper Launcher?

Don't let them die because they're scoring. If you assault with them then they might get tarpitted when you want them on objectives.

@DominicJ wrote:
The way I looked at it.
An Archon on a bike with an agoniser
An Arena Champ with agoniser
8 Reavers

They should kill seven marines when they get the charge.

I figured Eldar should be able to do something near similar
I'm not sure exactly what you're saying but Archons can't ride jetbikes and even if they could then you wouldn't want them to join Reavers because Reavers sit in cover all game until they can Bladevane something and that wouldn't take advantage of what the Archon does. They have a 3+ cover save when they turbo boost.

Reavers are a possible combat unit. They have I6, +1A, combat drugs and the Arena Champ with Venom blade is a cheap melee upgrade which helps them clean up units.

You will usually give them AT weapons to give them a lot of potential threats and flexibility. Windriders are better when shooting at infantry.



But if what you want is a cheap character who shoots, then you can put the Autarch on a jetbike and give him a reaper launcher and join him to Windrider or do the solitarch build. I think that nine times out of ten you'll be better off with Farseer on a jetbike joined to the same Guardians but it's up to you.
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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Mon Aug 26 2013, 08:13

Fuhr
I have flicked through the Eldar codex, but havent bought it yet.
I'm assuming that the Eldar can do something somewhat comparable to the theoretical archon bomb, even if the guardians are not wyches.

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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Mon Aug 26 2013, 12:56

Hey man, sorry I thought you were looking at it. I would say that true to form, Eldar bikes are best for shooting but DE bikes are much more versatile. Shining Spears have been reduced in price and might be feasible as a fun assault unit but they're not scoring. You could give them a try! I've still seen a bunch of seer councils as well and they're one of the strongest biker units in the game.

I would say that, for me, the Autarch has been the biggest letdown as a character since inception. When you look at the Archon, you see a versatile hero who is a threat to any model in the game depending on how he's built and you figure the Autarch would be similar. Alas he is more like a multi-wound aspect warrior in most circumstances. As some people have said, the best thing about him is his ability to manipulate reserve rolls but this ability doesn't work on DE units Sad
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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Mon Aug 26 2013, 19:11

No worries, its going to be Christmas before I do anything, I'm just speculating outloud.

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Wed Aug 28 2013, 20:01

I use the farseer myself (and wraith knight), but if I were going to run an Aurtach I would definitely mantle him and give him a fusion gun. He can zip around with a 2+ rerollable cover save and melta vehicles and then ... well laugh, when the enemy shoots at him.

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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Fri Aug 30 2013, 11:14

I had another look at the store copy last night, and you are right, he isnt an archon, and the GJBs arent Reavers.

I'm thinking an autarch with a lance and a fusion gun, or perhaps the eldar version of the kapow you are dead sword could lead a squad of Reavers, although thats pricey.
I'm trying to decide if he can be relied upon to kill support squads like long fangs if he has MOTLG

I was playing last night and I did think, I would really like a squad that can hold an objective in my DZ, we were on T4, and he had three, it ended in a table, but it could have ended with single reaper holding an obective and winning

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Obyiscus
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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Fri Aug 30 2013, 14:34

@DominicJ wrote:
I'm trying to decide if he can be relied upon to kill support squads like long fangs if he has MOTLG
Maybe a small Devastator squad, but not I'd be ify on a full strength Long Fang Squad (Remember Long Fangs get a descent number of attacks despite having Heavy Weapons)
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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Wed Sep 25 2013, 18:24

Laser lance wounds them on 2+ without armor saves.

Btw, autarch with banshee mask and Shard of Anaris makes a good challenger, as long as your enemy doesn't have EW which is much more common nowadays. Still, he can beat daemon princes and greater daemons and tervigons alike.

Sure, Archons can do that aswell, but sometimes they're striking last, and cannot ride bikes. And their 2++, while being invulnerable, isn't re-rollable.
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jbwms713
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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Thu Sep 26 2013, 16:23

Having looked through the Eldar Codex with serious intent of making full use of allies, and even going so far as to convert my Raiders into Serpents (removable overlay) to use as a full-on Eldar force, I think I can say something on the subject.

When it comes to Autarch vs Archon, I see the Archon as a more potent combat threat (sadly he can't take his own form of transport, which I'm still sore about), but the Autarch can set up for a better shooty-support platform. They can both do decently on the flip-side of things, but not quite as well as the other.

Windriders vs Reavers... Reavers are more geared toward fighting in assault, while the 'Riders are more geared to surviving an assault. Neither really wants to hit a full unit in combat. Bladevane is still an amazing rule, and is almost always the way to go when you want an infantry thing to die. Granted, Heat Lances find a wonderful platform on Reavers, their short effective range mitigated by being on a Jetbike.
Windriders can still do some hurt to AV10, and even 11 with the Cannons. Bladestorm is likewise an amazing rule, and catapults on Jetbikes are pretty dirty, especially twin linked.

What it comes down to is that Reavers are a mobile harassment unit, and Windriders are a more durable mobile holding unit.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Sun Oct 06 2013, 21:16

Pardon me, but why does the autarch manipulation not work? It says "in your army" and allies are in your army. There's no Eldar faq either so...

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Sun Oct 06 2013, 21:52

@The Red King wrote:
Pardon me,  but why does the autarch manipulation not work? It says "in your army" and allies are in your army. There's no Eldar faq either so...
It's in the BRB FAQ

Q: Do modifiers that apply to such things as Reserve rolls, apply to units from an allied detachment? (p124)
A: No.

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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Mon Oct 07 2013, 07:02

So it would still affect the units in the Eldar detachment then?

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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Mon Oct 07 2013, 09:18

@The Red King wrote:
So it would still affect the units in the Eldar detachment then?
There's a pedantic rules argument (just the kind I like) that says that the ability would not work at all if you take Eldar as your allied detachment but I think most people would agree that it's supposed to mean that it only works on the Eldar detachment that the Autarch is part of.

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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Tue Oct 08 2013, 10:14

I agree. I don't think that faq was meant to say that the strategic warlord trait in the BRB doesn't apply to allies lol

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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Tue Sep 09 2014, 10:46

In the latest FAQ there is nothing about Autarch's path of strategy limitations. I'm seriously consider him with reaver squad (3+/2+ with jink cover, H&R, fourth melta) to boost my null deployment list... or I should just wait for the new dex:/
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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Tue Sep 09 2014, 11:07

@Korwey wrote:
In the latest FAQ there is nothing about Autarch's path of strategy limitations. I'm seriously consider him with reaver squad (3+/2+ with jink cover, H&R, fourth melta) to boost my null deployment list... or I should just wait for the new dex:/

In the absence of a FAQ I'd agree that the Path of Strategy does exactly what it says on the tin and applies to your army, not just your detachment.

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PostSubject: Re: Autarch, bikers and a wraith knight   Fri Sep 12 2014, 03:22

I didn't see the faq for the brb in the downloads section could it be somewhere else?
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