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Hijallo
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PostSubject: General DE Wishlist   Mon Aug 05 2013, 19:52

As one could have seen with Eldar codex, wishlisting on forums isn't exactly "pointless". Many ideas from giant ELDAR WISHLIST thread on Warseer suddenly appeared in the book, being tweaked or outright copied.

So it's indirect proof that Devs are visiting comminity forums occasionnaly Smile

Let's consider what to tweak in our beloved graceful murderers to keep them fit for the *cough* metagame, where, after arrival of T'au, power creep is as strong as ever. What should be done and what should be undone? How could DE be balanced in that edition, for neither being grossly overpowered nor dummies for master races like SM and Tau to.

Okay, that's for introduction. If the current trend continues...

Wait, DE is a new codex, we could get smth different. For example, RW's are rather new and cool, Voidraven is likely to be a different kit.
But unfortunately every faction seems to get a BIG ROBOT OR SMTH like that. Even those whose previous style have nothing to do with giant battle robots.

Only large kit which would fit DE, both thematically and from gameplay POV, would be IMO a giant aircraft. Probably dual kit, dropship/gunship, different from current flyers. But ofc devs would choose the least imaginative way and make a Super-Talos instead.

My humble suggestions:

Flyers:

- Razorwing goes to FA, gets Vector Dancer, and some proper Air-To-Air rockets which could be exchanged to Monoshcytes for free.
Dark lances do not fit the jetfighter at all i think, we have no flyers with AV13+... yet. I guess multiple-shots S6-7 weapons with good AP would be better. Skyhunter rule can be applied to RW's aswell.

- Voidraven stays in HS. May be it's impolite, but i'd like to remind Phil why aviation sometimes still use bombs, not missiles or guns.
Because bomb is simple. It's a 1000 kg or more of explosions, nothing extra like missile guidance and propellant systems etc. It MUST be powerful, that's whole point of bomb. S10 Ap2 Large blast, nothing less. Maybe even Ignore Cover, but that would be abit too frustrating - ultimate weapons of doom coming out from nowhere, uncounterable and unsaveble... like we feel against Tau shooting. Other weapons could be synergized with bombing part, idk, heatlances maybe? Or short-ranged pumped haywire blasters, like Reaper's ones?

TL;DR:

Razorwing - fast, agile fighter with weapons fitted to take down AV10-12 targets and T5-7 creatures.

Voidraven - slow (by DE standarts) air-to-ground annihilation machine, short-ranged powerful weaponry devastating to armor and "elite" (i.e low-numbered) infantry.

4a. Please refrain from double posting. You may "bump" a post every 48hrs if you feel you are not getting responses. Double posts in project logs are acceptable. /Your friendly mod SS
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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Mon Aug 05 2013, 20:41

Mod, Thank you very much. I have been adding suggestions for our troops, when forum said me "you can only edit your own posts". How am i supposed to NOT double post when your interference strips me of ability to edit?

I suggest you start by contacting one of the moderation team, or more specifically the Dark Architects. They are most likely to be able to help. Cheers - Cavash.


Last edited by Hijallo on Mon Aug 05 2013, 20:41; edited 1 time in total
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SleepyPillow
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Mon Aug 05 2013, 20:41

I actually think about that since quite a while. Here are some thoughts I came up with. I guess there's a lot of questionable stuff in it, but I feel that we would benefit from these points.

- a WWP like the apo one. The current one is a lackluster-train.
- 2+ cover save when moving flat out with DE vehicles and the ability to charge out of a vehicle after the vehicle moved 12''.  Right now they're simply too easy to take down. Granting such benefits would proof that we are faster than anyone else and our natural lust of close combat.
- better wargear for Archons, Succubi and haemos. 90% of their items are simply too bad, too situational or both (most of them are both Very Happy).
- fearful haemos. Right now they're a 50 points-pain-token. Haemo's do not support their playthings and lackeys, they throw useful arcane technology at their enemies!
- a more diverse, useful court. Why can't he take some single trueborns or inccubi?
- Unit's that use psychological warfare. More unit's that provide fear.
- total overhaul to mandrakes, kheradruakh and harpies and our fliers.
- generally 5++ for wyches, 4++ in close combat, while bloodbrides and succubi get general 4++ and 3++ in cc. Lelith ofc takes the juicy general 2++. Right now their abnormal reflexes are not fully shown
- poisonous shots harder against weak foes and wounds T3 or less models on 3+.  Because science.

I don't mind HUGH point increases for these changes. What I would mind is that we stay what we are right now, we do not have means tricks in our sleeves, we're not feared, we don't charge full of lust in the upcoming close combat.  What we do right now is sitting far away in venoms and wait for our enemies to bleed out until we can feast on

Sure it's good that we're hard to play and ofc there are a lot of people that prove that our army is still diverse in it's playstyle. But looking at all the shiny stuff that Eldar, Tau, CSM, Deamons and DA got, I come to to the conclusion that we're out of the cool kids club.

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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Mon Aug 05 2013, 20:53

I think, compared to Eldar who are fast but also can maintain good defences, DE should be more agressive and elusive army. Nightshields are an awesome idea, maybe one could add something like that, which allows us easier avoidance of enemy fire rather than tanking it? Ofc, not outright invulnerability, but the ability to choose our own targets and deny retalitation for the rest of opposing army. That's very, very DE-sque.

Something like upgrade which gives Thrust move to vehicle... and i think a piece of equpment which allows to treat a skimmer like a flyer for one turn (which already exists in Apoc i think) would be good. Call it Gravburner or something.

May be it's abit too early to making a suggestions about certain units and powes, i think it's important to find a "spirit" or "style" of the army. Something which differentate us from Eldar while keeping us close, and alienates from other armies.

TL;DR "What i want to see":

- Close quarters oriented army. Rapifiring assault rifles point-blank or slashing with poisoned blades, that's all close combat. Venoms firing across the table are nice, but i think their role is too high compared to infantry they carry and other units. But here comes the question of survivability - we're Eldar after all, target saturation on IG levels shouldn't be avaliable to us.

- Mobile army. Dark or not, mobility is another name of Eldar. Instead of battle focus, i think we could claim army-wide special rule which allows to shoot @full BS from aboard of transport even on cruising speed, and probably longer charge distance (since we already have fleet, i could think of nothing but assault on 3d6). Many people claim that 6E is an eidtion of shooting and flyers, i think DE is a good army to shift that abit.

================

Pain Token Overhaul.

Actually, i found current PT system abit contradictory. We have a bunch of *cough* relatively cheap units which are fragile but have good damage output. And PT's are permanent effects which have to be stacked through the course of the game.
I think DE could utilise token system similar to those of psy powers. There're "disciplines" (three or four of them - one basic and one for each sub-faction), certain units got acess to certain disciples. Unlike psy, they automatically know all powers. Unlike psy, charges are not self-replenishing, they have to be acquired...

So, everyone starts with a small amount of PT. Enough to use one power in case it's DESPERATELY needed, Haemos and Coven units have more.
Pain tokens would become variable, not constant. Inflicting an unsaved wound (to differentate strengh of enemiies, i think taking LD test against their majority LD characteristic would be fine) = 1 PT. Someone failed Morale or Pinning caused by unit - d3+1. Destroyed vehicle - same (They usually have crew, after all...). Non-vehicle unit totally wiped out - test for every casuality plus bonus award.

Powers could have different effect, some of them could be current ones, some of them more specific. Of course that's only my opinion, but more players' choices = more strategy = good.
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Tue Aug 06 2013, 06:57

Night shields: all units shooting at the vehicles use the night fight rules.

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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Tue Aug 06 2013, 09:09

Mushkilla wrote:
Night shields: all units shooting at the vehicles use the night fight rules.

When I originally read that our vehicles could have an upgrade called night shield, I actually assumed this was what they did! They'd have to be much more expensive, probably in line with Eldar vehicle upgrades in terms of cost, but it could work.

Give mandrakes shrouded and let them start with bale blast, either by making it not dependant on a pain token or by letting them start with one. From a fluff perspective it makes no sense that Kheradruakh, wracks, grotesques and haemonculi have the altered physique special rule and mandrakes don't. Give them the daemon special rule. Some sort of hit and run variant which allows them to leave combat and fade into the shadows, entering ongoing reserve or something would be cool.

Allow independent characters to take Venoms just for themselves - it says it in the Venom entry, let them do it. Except haemonculi, as a potential six Venoms just for HQs is overpowered.

Get rid of combat drugs that apply to running, or make them also apply to turbo boosting.

Torment grenade launchers give the unit grenades on the turn they disembark from the vehicle, no longer forcing close combat archons to be put with our other great close combat unit. Enemy units also suffer minus one to leadership, and the effects of multiple TGLs are cumulative - there's strength in numbers, after all.

Move the Razorwing to fast attack. Give it Vector Dancer.

Arcane wargear needs an overhaul. Currently it's fun but useless in a competitive environment, and for practically a whole section of wargear that's a bit much. Casket of flensing could be a base strength four, the archangel of pain and crucible of malediction could be 24" range, the orb of despair could do with being 12".

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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Tue Aug 06 2013, 16:27

Infantry:

- Kabalites. They're our only troops choice atm =( Perfectly bland and boring. I'm not sure they need further tweaking, but, IMO, grenades (come on, even Eldar Guardians have 'em!) and poisoned knives would be a nice addition to utilise high WS/I. This wouldn't turn them into melee unit, but atleast Kabalites would take down GEQ more easily, and pose some threat to tougher units in CC.

- Wyches. Those suffered the most from edition changes - survivability have been almost halved, charge range reduced etc. If they even appear in competitve games, almost always as 5-chick strong unit with HWG to hunt careless vehicles.

However, they're not supposed to be ultimate killer unit, their niche is to slowly kill enemies while avoiding their blows (hence Dodge, Shardnet etc) or act as a support for someone who have more hitting power. That makes them hard to balance. I think clue might be found in the revamped Pain Tokens system and transports (supposed dropship, for example), but i wouldn't mind Wyches being more killy, especially if Kabalites would get their poisoned weapons and grenades.

- Wracks. I'm not a huge fan of Coven units, so it might be wiser to let speak someone with greater expierence. Suggestions: strip armor altogether, grant them bonus to F'n'P, make their poisons better (3+ poison or shredding poison. Or even Rending one - sometimes a drop of liquid could get even through greatest armor, and for many species one drop of Haemounculus-brewed poison would be enough to suffer a horrible death), give a ranged weapon option (Sniper rifles anyone?).
[An idea just glimpsed before me: Hexrifle-wielding wracks with Slow and Purposeful rule!].

Our infantry weapons:

Speaking about warriors, one would almost always choose blaster over shredder. However, Phil Kelly already changed monofilament weapons in Eldar codex, and Shredder clearly falls in the same weapon cathegory.

New shredder:
S6, AP6, Monofilament, Rapid Fire, Blast.

Up 5 points. So, one could choose weapon more oriented to destroy tougher foes (ID'ng T4, destroying LR's and their kin), or to kill more lightly armored infantry and vehicles.

====
Army-wide special rule:

Swiftblade - Unit, entirely composed of models with that special rule, ignores normal restrictions of shooting and disembarking from the transport if the transport is open-topped. In addition, models with that speical rule roll an additional dice while determining distance of their Charge.

Slower units, like Coven ones, lack this rule but have improved FnP and SnP/Relentless instead,
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Zaakath
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Tue Aug 06 2013, 18:38

I'm kind of surprised no one has suggested a raider/ravager modification such as the orks still have; that the explosions on the passengers are S3, or perhaps are only wounded on a 5/6; they are after all fairly used to them being destroyed right out from under themselves. Even more so than the orks are I would imagine.
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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Tue Aug 06 2013, 22:55

Orks retained it from 4/5 editions, they'll lose it with their next codex.
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average joe
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Wed Aug 07 2013, 00:10

Without addressing any unit specifics.

1. How about army wide fixed retention of cover saves. i.e. we ignore the ignore cover rule.
2. Webway portals bought and placed like fortifications.
3. Regardless of scenario we gain a VP for the first unit we destroy in cc. The currency of the Dark City is slaves after all.
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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Wed Aug 07 2013, 02:04

Suggested changes to DE in 6th edition.
HQs
Lady Malyas:
 The crystal heart: The unit that lady Malays is in may not be the target of any psychic powers. In addition, any unit that she is engaged in combat with may not cast any psychic powers.
The Lady’s Blade: generates 2 bonus attacks every round and grant preferred enemy against any unit containing a model with the psycker special rule.
This would make her actually effective at what she is supposed to do, mainly defend against psychic powers. Since most of the better powers are buffs this helps DE shut them down.

Vect: keep him the same but give him a huskblade as well so he can use the scepter to eat MEQ while the blade lets him challenge TEQ. There isn’t even a model out for him so it’s an easy change to make.

The Duke:
Keep him the same but reduce his cost by 10 and remove his contraband special rule. He honestly has too many special rules and it forces wych cult armies to take the Duke which isn’t very fluffy. Don’t worry, the succubus gets a rule to make up for it.

Succubus:
Dodge becomes 4++ in combat and a 5++ outside of combat.
May take items from the relics of the Dark Muses list.
Special rules:
Refined tastes: After rolling for drugs the succubus may pick an additional drug for the list; she and the unit she is attached to gain this drug as well as the drug that was rolled. She may instead choose to reroll the drug roll instead of picking an additional drug for herself and her unit.

Haemonculi:
Reduced in cost to 40 points each and allow 5 to be taken per HQ slot.
May take items from the arcane artifacts list

Ancient Haemonculi may take times from the Relics of the Dark Muses as well.

Troops:
Warriors stay the way they are.

Wyches:
Reduce cost by one point.
Reduce the cost of wych weapons down to 5 points each and allow them to take one for every three wyches.
Change their dodge rule so that they have a 4++ save in the assault phase not just in close combat.

Transports:

Raider:
The raider costs 45 points and comes without a weapon but it an buy a DL for 15 points or a disintegrator for 10.
A rule similar to the orks which makes explosions S3 instead of S4, maybe even S2.

Venoms: venoms are fine the way they are.

Elites:

Incubi: Keep them the same price.
Special rules:
Tormenter field:  Counts as having both assault and defensive grenades.

True born: Fine the way they are. Maybe give them the option of purchasing ghost plate for a few points.

Blood brides: Same changes as to wyches but every Blood bride may take a Wych weapon for 5 points.

Harlequins: Maybe reducing the cost of the spirit seer to 15 points, have them come with grenades by default, and have all of them come with kiss at their base price?

Wracks: Reduce their cost by 1 or 2, give them strength 4, allow them to come in bigger units of up to 20, and allow any of them to exchange both of their poisoned CC weapons for a hex rifle.

Fast Attack:

Razor wing fighter: Reduce cost by 20 points, give it vector dance, air to air missiles, and switch its DLs for 2 pulse lances, twin-linked S7 AP2 heavy 2 lances.

Hellions: Give them a 4+ armor save. I know it sounds funny, but any unit on an Eldar jetbike gets +1 T and a 3+ armor save. It’s not that big a stretch to say a sky board gives them a 4+ save.

Beast packs: are fine how they are.

Reavers: Reduce the cost of reavers by 2, reduce the cost of CC by 5, and GT by 5 as well.

Heavy support:

Scourges: Decrease the cost by 2, allow them to take 4 heavy weapons in a unit of five and the solirite the option to purchase a rule that gives the unit sky fire.

Ravenger: Fine how it is now.

Void raven bomber: Cut its price by 10, give it vector dance, and have it come with 3 or 4 void mines.

Talos: Give it fleet.

Chronos: Give it fleet.

Army rules and equipment

Relics of the Dark Muses

Vileth’s Phantom plate:  Vileth is revered as the most arrogant Eldar to have ever drawn breath. This arrogance is shown even in his armor which was forged with the soul of a greater demon enclosed shackled inside by ancient arcane runes.  Grants the bearer 3+, 5++, and fear. 20 points

Blade of Shaimesh: Shaimesh is the father of all poisons and is revered by the down trodden of Dark Eldar society for he taught that poisons kill all equally, regardless of position or strength. His blade is designed to slice through even heavy armor so that his gift of death may be granted to equally to all.   AP3 2+ poison. 25 points

Lihilitu’s kiss: Lihilitu is considered to be the greatest courtesan of all time. Her kiss is a sophisticated agonizer that stimulates pleasure nerves as opposed to those for pain, thought if anything the results are even more deadly. Such was her skill with her kiss that countless Eldar nobles during the fall paid her to allow them to experience the greatest pleasure in existence before that same pleasure burned their mines to ash. Lihilitu’s kiss is an AP2 agoniser that on succussfil to wound roll causes the wounded model’s WS, I, and BS to be permanently decreased by one. 30 points

Hair Ornament of the Red Crone: The red crone is the most celebrated Wych to ever live for it was she who first founded the gladiatorial areanas during the time of the fall. Though her spirit is long vanished into the void her legend lives on in the relics she left behind: Hair Ornament of the Red Crone grants the eternal warrior special rule to the model possessing it and in challenges allows them to reroll a single die each turn. 15 points

The Dark Mother’s blade: The Dark Mother is the most mysterious of the Dark muses for it is said that it was she that first established the dark city and began the pursuit of pleasure, and it was through this blade that she gained the power to do so. It is rumored that she was a princess in the days before the fall and that her rise to power was the result of the bloody path caused by this blade and the terrible pacts forged between her and unholy beings the likes of which walk not in the material world in this day and age. If there is one being that can be blamed for the fall, then the Dark Mother and her blade are it. Ap2 S10 instant death. Roll to wound against the opposing model’s leadership if it has a leadership value otherwise roll as normal. 40 points

Arcane War gear:

Generators: Each Haemonculi may take only one generator each from the list, Ancients may take up to two.

Night field generator: Whenever a unit shoots at a unit containing a model with a night field generator night fighting rules are used. 15 points

Terror field generator: enemy units within 12 inches of a model with a terror field generator have -3 to their leadership. 15 points

Flicker field generator: A unit containing a model with a Flicker field generator has a 5++ invulnerable save. 25 Points

Eclipse generator: at the beginning of each game turn roll a D6. On a 4+ nothing happens but on a 5+ night fighting rules are in effect for that turn. 35 points *only one per primary detachment.

These changes are mainly to allow a more viable coven foot list. Stick a Haemonculi in a large unit of wracks with a FF generator and you have a chance to get their.

Combat drugs
1: serpentine: +1 WS
2:Grave lotus: +1 S
3: Painbringer: Reroll fail to wound
4:Adrenalite: +1 attack
5:Splintermind: start with a pain token.
6: Hypex: Improves invulnerability saves by one. If the model doesn’t have an invulnerability save it gains a 5++ save. (So wyches that roll this drug get a 3++ in assult and a 5++ outside of assault.)

Dark Eldar Weapons and Equipment
Phantasm Grenade launcher: Grants Assault grenades to the unit containing them. Shooting Profile: range 12 S9. Roll to wound against leadership, on a success no wounds are caused but the targeted unit may not take any actions the following assault phase. (This includes overwatch, issuing challenges, and special abilities like purifying flame, mind shackle scarabs and wolf banners.) No saves of any kind may be taken against Phantasm Grenade launcher.
This is how we overcome over watch my friends. We shoot grenades full of crazy gas at them so they’re too busy freaking out to shoot at us as we run up to stab them in the face. Stack with terror field generators and torment grenade launchers for extra lolz.

Shredder: template S4 ap- mono filament. 5 points
In reality warriors have no need of a close range small blast weapon, but a template weapon would be of great benefit in helping them avoid charges, It’s also a small call back to the old warp spiders.
Hyper toxin cannons: 3+ AP4 heavy 5 or assault 3. May only be purchased by scourges or trueborn. 15 points
I find it interesting that scourges and trueborn are both rich DE so this weapon shows they can buy the best poisons there are for their cannons.

Pulse lance: S7 ap2 twin-linked heavy 2 only on Razor wing fighters.

Ok that’s all I got guys. What do you think?
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Mngwa
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Mon Aug 12 2013, 12:44

Here are some things I would like to see (some of these I have mentioned in other threads):


- Mandrakes have sickle-swords with rending, and T4

- Bloodbrides have WS5, and access to more weapons in smaller squads

- Wyches and bloodbrides have the following special rule:
"Hitchhike": When a unit of reavers uses turboboost, they can "pick up" a unit of wyches/bloodbrides they pass underneath, moving them with the unit. The Reavers must have an equal or larger amount of models than the wyches. As restrictions, the wyches count as having ran, the reavers cannot bladevane that turn, and all models in both units must end up in base contact with another member of the unit.

- Trueborn automatically with ghostplates, and access to more weapons, both CC and ranged

- A new skimmer (yet to be named): raider statlines, and a similar model than it. Following changes: Its transport capacity is 5, and it has another weapon, in addition to the dark lance.
I'm going to call it Darklight Cannon, and here are stats for it:
Range 48 inch, S8, AP2, Ordnance 2, Skyfire
As a miniature, I would see it as a raider with a big gun platform in the center.

- Archon, succubus and haemonculus with the option of reaver jetbikes
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Mngwa
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Mon Aug 19 2013, 16:35

A few additions I just thought up that we need:

- Kabalites 'n bikes. Because we dont have a scoring EJB unit. They would have default DE bikes, like reavers do, but you can add a splinter cannon in them, just like you can add a shuriken cannon on GJB.

- A Harlequin Special Character and/or a regular IC, that can be used by both Eldar and DE. I secretly hoped the new CWE codex would bring one that we could use, but...
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Mon Aug 19 2013, 18:08

Mandrakes have grenades and start with a pain token.

Arcons can take jetbikes, if the warlord does, jetbikes become troops.

Allow assault out of portals

Other than that, im good.

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Mngwa
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Wed Aug 21 2013, 16:53

Yet me again. I just thought this and I think it would be an awesome addition.

A new weapon, called "splinter bomb". It would look a bit like a mortar. It can be given to one kabalite warrior for each 5 warriors in squad, and for trueborn for each 3 trueborn in squad.
It counts as a poison (+3) weapon with 24 inch range, blast. It probably should be a Heavy 1 weapon, if it is like a mortar.
It is poison-weapon, but, it could, HOWEVER, be used against vehicles.
Another weapon mode for it would be this:
24 range, no strength value, not poisoned, no blast, and a special rule called "splinter explosion" (very creative names here).
The Splinter bomb-weapon at this mode can be shot only at vehicles (even though it has no strenght value), and the special rule is this: instead of armour penetration rolls if it hits, you roll a D6.
On a 3-4, the vehicle it hit gets the crew shaken result. On a +5, it gets the crew stunned result. Also, on a +5, the vehicle counts as having suffered a glancing hit.

What do you think? Too strong? Too weak? Should wyches get to use one?
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PainReaver
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Mon Aug 26 2013, 06:15

Raiders, Venoms and Ravagers have a jetbike move in assault phase after firing (aka JSJ)

Each bloodbride being able to take wych weapons (10 pts)

I approve of HQ choices on Reavers and making them troops.
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Adron
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Wed Aug 28 2013, 19:57

As you were speeding about tricks up sleeves would it be possible to take a leaf out of dark elves (I don't play them and don't only vaguely know how they work) some sort of assassins that hide normal infantry units I.e. kalibite warriors and wych squads maybe incubi but not things like scourges, jet bikes or mandrakes
These would hide in a chosen squad until you choose to revel them selves most likely in combat to attack a enemy character or monster
Perhaps a limit on numbers
This would make people more wary of the troops fit giving a phycological fear, it would fit with the idea off dark eldar and since you would only want to reveal the assassin once it has reached it's target providing a incentive for combat
How would they function rules, equipment and stats wise?
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Obyiscus
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Wed Aug 28 2013, 20:36

Disintegrator Cannons on things other then vehicles (Ie. Trueborn, Warriors, Jetbikes, Scourges)
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Mngwa
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Thu Aug 29 2013, 12:39

Adron wrote:
As you were speeding about tricks up sleeves would it be possible to take a leaf out of dark elves (I don't play them and don't only vaguely know how they work) some sort of assassins that hide normal infantry units I.e. kalibite warriors and wych squads maybe incubi but not things like scourges, jet bikes or mandrakes
These would hide in a chosen squad until you choose to revel them selves most likely in combat to attack a enemy character or monster
Perhaps a limit on numbers
This would make people more wary of the troops fit giving a phycological fear, it would fit with the idea off dark eldar and since you would only want to reveal the assassin once it has reached it's target providing a incentive for combat
How would they function rules, equipment and stats wise?
The skaven have this too, and I think it would work great with us as well!
The first thing that comes into mind is that if it counts as 1 person when it comes to transport capacity, and you have a list with x4 10 kabalites with SC in raiders, and then a 7x wych squad in a raider...
But altering lists to make your opponent think carefully at where they would be could work. Like a 3x incubi squad with an archon with the same list as above, it could be in two different places! (the logical place to put an assassin would be the wyches, but thats what the opponent thinks!)

I can soon imagine it... Dark Eldar assassin...
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Thu Aug 29 2013, 16:53

Mushkilla wrote:
Night shields: all units shooting at the vehicles use the night fight rules.
Thieving little...That was my idea! Very Happy

Back on the wishlisting:

1) Give our vehicles a similar ability to Eldar Battle Focus, ie option to move-shoot-flat-out or move-flat-out-shoot. For me this matches the fluff and gives a measure of survivability to our otherwise incredibly fragile vehicles by allowing them to get back into cover after shooting or to benefit from the increased cover save from flat-out movement

2) Have our splinter weaponry benefit from the same rules as poisoned melee attacks, ie wound on a fixed value unless a lower score required plus rerolls if S is equal to or greater than the enemy T. Would need to assign a notional Strength value to each weapon to enable this (S3 pistols, 4 for rifles/shardcarbines and 6 for cannons?)

3) Give us back Terrorfex/Horrorfex in some form. Assault grenades with a small blast that causes no damage but inflicts -1Ld on the enemy unit for every model under the blast?

4) More weaponry that causes fear, forces Ld tests etc. Really play around with the idea of fear and pain being meat and drink to the Dark Eldar. Steal the Eldar Mindshock Pods for a start.

5) Let us assault out of our damn Webway Portals!

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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Wed Sep 25 2013, 11:40

Haemouncouli stuff:
- Liqiufier gun: S4* Ap d6, special rules: template, the quick and the dead*

*Luqiufier wounds against an Initiative rather than a Toughness. However, instant death rule only applies when enemy unmodified initiative is 2 or lower; (there are too many ways to lower initiative to one, essentially making any Blind and Liqiufier combo extremely cheesy.)
Against targets which do not have an initiative, Luquie has a Str of 5 and Entropic Strike special rule.

IMO that reflects cool acid gun better then ordinary flamer with random AP. Maybe one should get rid of that and give it constant value.

Ordinary DE flamer, i suck at creating cool names for warhammer 40k universe. If there are people from Ireland or other Celtic countries, suggest a name, most people wouldn't recognize the difference between Gaelic and Eldar languages anyway.

S: - Ap:4 Poison! Because everything better with poison!

Could be picked by Warriors as Special Weapon. 10 pts. I still think that Shredder should be S6 rapidfire 24" Monofilament; so it would appear in lists instead of Blaster sometimes. Probably 5 pt for assault blast autocannon is too little, and it should cost 10 aswell.

Archangel of Pain:

Release a psychic power. Nova 12" profile, every unit under blast suffers an effect similar to those of Telepathy primaris. Every unit which suffers at least one casualty MUST immediately take Morale test with penalty equal to the number of casualties from power. DtW is not allowed.

Judge points cost for that. Combine with deepstriking raiders (via Duke ability which allows disembarkation) to strike tears of cheese out of Tau players!

How to fix mandrakes:

- Confirmed Daemons. Fearless, 5++, Fear.
- all Mandrakes have Stealth, Nightfiend could buy Shrouded.
- FnP by default, combined with revamp of PT system they could spend it on semi-psychic abilities (ex: Baleblast the same, Terror strike - unit's LD suffers a huge penalty, cannot fire Overwatch and has reduced WS and I, Shadowstride - disappear and deploy as via Deep Strike, scatter 1d6).
- Ignore terrain altogether.

Raise price tag accordingly. But IMO that'd make them at least decent.

Our grenade launchers:

Phantasm Grenade Launcher:
- Lets you fire all grenades unit has access to with range of 18, Assault 1 or 2.
- Grants unique grenade type: Horrorfex. It's simple: S3, ap-, blast, pinning, unit(s) hit by Horrorfex cannot overwatch. Period.

Torment Grenade Launcher:
- Make it an actual GL with Split Fire special rule. Could shoot Plasma and something like that:
Tormenting grenade:
S8*, ap2, blast, pinning. Wounds against target's unit majority Ld instead of T. Can be fired on overwatch as if it's a Template weapon.

Or maybe just Plasma and purchasable ammo like haywire, fusion, etc.

4a. Please refrain from double posting. You may "bump" a post every 48hrs if you feel you are not getting responses. Double posts in project logs are acceptable. /Your friendly mod SS
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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Thu Sep 26 2013, 20:40

I think we should get "Strafing run" on our ravagers. The rule description totally fits our theme. What do you think?

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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Thu Sep 26 2013, 22:46

I would like us to get the same treatment as other 6th ed. codices: keep the character of the army, but open up the options to give it much greater variety and also to shore up its weaknesses. For example, the Tau are shooty, high-tech, and weak in close combat. Their codex keeps them that way, but it is also filled with an abundance of options to counter their weaknesses (an overabundance, some would say. They have options to counter every possible threat you can imagine and some that no one even has yet, just in case!).

The Dark Eldar are supposed to be fast, scary, and fragile. As for 1) Fast: compared to other armies we are not really that fast any more, only fast-ish. We should have special rules that reflect our supposed speed, such as: something similar to Battle Focus for troops AND vehicles, passengers shooting normally or disembarking after moving 12", increased running moves, etc.

2) Scary: The terror that DE should be is currently mostly cosmetic, like mandrakes with their 'evil-looking blades'; they don't actually do anything, they're just evil-looking. We should have rules that reflect the use of terror, i.e., force Ld tests on our enemies with a variety of consequences.

3) Fragile: Well we are definitely that. Maybe we should have rules and options that make us easy to kill if hit *but* difficult to hit. I like the idea of Night Shields giving the 'Night Fighting' rule, but it's still a cover save. Anyone playing against DE will just counter it with lots of Ignores Cover. We need something to differentiate between being difficult to hit and standing behind a wall.

I would also like something that makes our warriors and wyches more fearsome, like Bladestorm does for eldar Guardians. Wyches should be more dangerous in close combat and also more difficult to hit so that they can actually get there, even on foot.

Since our aeroplanes more or less started the whole flyer thing, we should have the best ones. At the very least they should get vector dancer.

Our equipment should be more varied, useful, and available. Troops could carry torment grenades. Phantasm grenades could do something more than just count as assault and defense grenades. The Crucible of Malediction could be more useful ('behold my jack-in-a-box anti psycher death wave!). We should not only be able to assault from WWPs, but also use them as bridges (move into one, and out another!). And so on.

Generally I think that upgrading our codex to 6th edition means making it less sedate and a lot more colourful, including lots of options to counter our inherent weaknesses.
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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Fri Sep 27 2013, 05:21

Vehicles and vehicle equipment:

Enhanced Aethersails:
Raider, Ravager (and anything on Raider's hull) with Enhanced Aethersails can move 2d6 in the assault phase - 15 points.

Nightshields:
Keep them same, i'd say. They're unique and fun, streamlining doesn't work for DE IMO. Other option: well, targeting vehicle with NS always follows Night Fighting rules.

Flickerfield:
I know you gonna kill me for that...
- Any model with FF treats it's cover save is if were invulnerable ones - 10 pts

TGLs as aforementioned.

Chain-Snares:
- Same as Reavers' ability. Could be used either in Movement phase OR during Flat Out. If used on movement, it inflicts 2d6 S4 AP- hits, if used while Flat Outing, inflicts same amount of S6 hits. 10 pts.

New Stuff Off My Head:

Skyrender targeting array:
- At the beginning of each Shooting phase, choose one of the following rules to be applied to model: Split Fire, Skyfire, Tank Hunters. If you didn't choose either rule, immediately after model's hit enemy unit with it's shooting weapons lower enemy cover saves against that attack by one. 20 pts.

Gravburner:
There's one thing Orks, Dark Eldar and Russians have in common. They love to go FASTA!
Once per game, at the beginning of the movement phase you can choose to use Flyer's rules for moving model with that piece of equipment. However, acceleration is too fast even for DE supreme marksmen to handle, and both vehicle and it's passengers can fire only snap shots during the following shooting phase. 10 pts.

Decoy Projector.
- At the beginning of each Shooting and Assault phases, place d3 counters besides vehicle. When that vehicles suffers glancing or penetrating hit, disregard it and remove one counter. 15 pts

Note about Chain-Snares and Reavers:
Make them Ignore Cover please. It could have been badly broken in 5E, but not anymore.


Last edited by Hijallo on Sat Sep 28 2013, 17:09; edited 5 times in total
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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: General DE Wishlist   Sat Sep 28 2013, 16:49

Doublepost


Last edited by Hijallo on Sat Sep 28 2013, 16:50; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Doubleposting)
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