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 Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed

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Vasara
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PostSubject: Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed   Wed Jul 03 2013, 07:10

Is it affected when weapon destroyed result happens? Or is it just the other two weapons?


Last edited by Vasara on Fri Jul 05 2013, 08:46; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed   Wed Jul 03 2013, 07:57

@Vasara wrote:
Is it affected when weapon destroyed result happens? Or is it just the other two weapons?
I don't believe its listed as a weapon in the Eldar codex. Its wargear that can be used alternatively as a weapon.
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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed   Wed Jul 03 2013, 08:34

It is a wargear, but I see the argument coming that its a weapon too.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed   Wed Jul 03 2013, 08:53

I'd agree with autopilot, it's an energy shield not a weapon so there's nothing to destroy. Don't think it's listed in the army list part of the book as a weapon under the wave serpent entry (though I don't have my codex to hand).

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Ferox77
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed   Thu Jul 04 2013, 01:36

Another example of wargear/weapon on a vehicle is the ork deff roller, which isn't destroyed from a weapons destroyed result.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed   Thu Jul 04 2013, 08:55

It's listed as a vehicle upgrade in the codex, rather than a weapon, so I'd lean towards it not being eligible for a weapon destroyed result.

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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed   Thu Jul 04 2013, 09:12

I think we have established our opinion on the matter. It's not effected.

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Timatron
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed   Thu Jul 04 2013, 23:20

Which of course brings up an interesting secondary question: If the serpents shield is not a weapon, should it therefore be unable to take advantage of the twin-linking effect of scatter-lasers? I don't own the eldar codex, but if it's worded as 'weapons' fired by the same vehicle count as twin linked then it must not affect the shield. One cannot have it both ways surely?
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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed   Fri Jul 05 2013, 08:45

I was also thinking this. Laser lock specifically speaks of weapons I'd be inclined to not allow the twinlinking. It's only a wargear.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed   Fri Jul 05 2013, 09:00

Reading further into this, the Serpent Shield wording says "treat this as a hull-mounted weapon pointing forward" which does tend to support being able to twin-link it but also supports being able to destroy it. My only query over that would be how and when it can be destroyed. If the Serpent Shield is active presumably it cannot be destroyed as the 'weapon' technically doesn't exist at that point. If the shield has been deactivated in order to fire the 'weapon' it also technically doesn't exist other than at the moment it is fired. You're basically shooting the shield outwards and waiting for it to recharge.

I think we're back into FAQ territory here!

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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed   Fri Jul 05 2013, 09:18

Embarassed I really should read the rules before posting anything here since I have the Codex:oops: 

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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed   Fri Jul 05 2013, 10:49

Ah! I think Count Adhemar is on to something here.

I say we suffer until an FAQ comes out.
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Timatron
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed   Fri Jul 05 2013, 14:22

I intend to ask my opponent which way round they want it; it can be a weapon and therefore able to be destroyed and benefit from laser-lock, or it's not a weapon and cannot be destroyed but doesn't benefit from laser-lock. If whoever I was playing against wanted their cake and eat it I'd probably not be willing to play them after that anyway. Most players I know would see the inherent fairness in this approach however, I'm proud to be able to say!
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed   Fri Jul 05 2013, 14:31

In the absence of a FAQ that seems like a perfect compromise.

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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed   Fri Jul 05 2013, 18:53

@Count Adhemar wrote:
In the absence of a FAQ that seems like a perfect compromise.
Agree totally. Well said!

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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed   Fri Jul 05 2013, 20:40

I'd say maybe the shooting part could be destroyed if you fired with it in the previous turn. Otherwise the shield is just a shield and has no weapon profile. I actually would think that no you can't destroy it as there is no weapon. It is firing a field of energy. And after it fires the serpant it shieldless for the turn

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Timatron
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed   Fri Jul 05 2013, 23:58

As I said Colin, I have no preference which way round it is, but I don't think it's right to have all the benefits and none of the negatives. If it's not a weapon it doesn't get Laser-Lock; if it is then it can be destroyed.
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed   Sat Jul 06 2013, 02:11

Though it seems reasonable to be willing to argue that it's a piece of wargear that can fire a weapon effect, and at the point of firing it counts like a weapon. It honestly wouldn't shock me if that was their FAQ ruling as it hardly seems an unreasonable way to take the rules.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed   Sat Jul 06 2013, 09:27

I suspect that will be the FAQ outcome too. I've e-mailed the FAQ team to bring it to their attention but it might help if a few other people did too.

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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed   Sat Jul 06 2013, 09:51

I don't have the new Eldar Codex, so I don't know whether the shield is an upgrade or standard equipment, but while checking something else in the BRB yesterday I happened to notice that the 'weapon destroyed' result (p. 74) does say "This can include vehicle upgrades that function as weapons". Is that any help? (Otherwise, I agree with the general consensus above.)
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed   Sat Jul 06 2013, 10:40

@Ben_S wrote:
I don't have the new Eldar Codex, so I don't know whether the shield is an upgrade or standard equipment, but while checking something else in the BRB yesterday I happened to notice that the 'weapon destroyed' result (p. 74) does say "This can include vehicle upgrades that function as weapons". Is that any help? (Otherwise, I agree with the general consensus above.)
Nice find! Right after that sentence, it says not to count weapons that have run out of "ammunition." Does this mean if I shoot the Serpent Shield, I have no weapon for you to destroy?
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpent shield and weapon destroyed   Tue Jul 23 2013, 20:47

It's not an upgrade and it's not listed as a weapon. When you're firing it, you just treat it like a weapon. Therefore, laser lock works and it cannot be destroyed by weapon destroyed effect.

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