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 Apocalypse - Dark Eldar

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ravenizer
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PostSubject: Re: Apocalypse - Dark Eldar   Fri Jul 12 2013, 10:58

The whole Apoc policy is too obvious and painfull for mentaly non-retarded people Sad. Guys in my LGS deciphered what GW had in their mind. Since apoc games uses those huge templates, the apoc games resolve around quantity, rather than quality. If a kid looses in apoc he thinks "damn, if I get demolished by a big template, what I need to do? I need to get more minatures!".

Never ending feast on our wallets. There are some true Dark Eldar workers in GW store Very Happy.

Btw, there are leaks for next apoc templates.
http://d.wiadomosci24.pl/g2/aa/2b/12/52079_1197536329_2908_p.jpeg
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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Re: Apocalypse - Dark Eldar   Fri Jul 12 2013, 11:05

I guess I'm more interested in seeing what Apocalypse brings to the Commorrite table; I'm not going to be playing it that often anyway.

So, the Firestorm Redoubt. I've been interested in this since I first saw it.

However, at the cost of two Talos Pain Engines you get a medium building (AV14) which can give a few vehicles a 3+, two twin-linked, fully automated icarus lascannons with skyfire and interceptor that must fire at the nearest flyer/monster otherwise fire at the closest target.

Yeh or meh?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Apocalypse - Dark Eldar   Fri Jul 12 2013, 12:24

Does it have to be automated or can you man it?

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Apocalypse - Dark Eldar   Fri Jul 12 2013, 15:08

My problem with Apoc is that DE doesnt get the toys other armies do. Add in that the entire game boils down to who brings the biggest toys and who shoots first... It really ruins the experience for me...

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Apocalypse - Dark Eldar   Fri Jul 12 2013, 18:03

@Shadows Revenge wrote:
My problem with Apoc is that DE doesnt get the toys other armies do. Add in that the entire game boils down to who brings the biggest toys and who shoots first... It really ruins the experience for me...
I can link you to an Apoc I just played where I was DE teamed with Chaos, neither of us brought any Super Heavies, and I was the only one who fielded a formation (two, in fact). Versus a triple Sphess Marine list with a Warhound.

It was a tie game that, if it had gone about one more round, would have meant that DE were going to table the enemy.

I'm not sure about the new book due to some of the rumors I'm hearing, but the old Apoc rules had a lot of strategy possible and did not require you to own a bunch of D strength weapons to win.

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commandersasha
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PostSubject: Re: Apocalypse - Dark Eldar   Fri Jul 12 2013, 20:54

One thing to remember is that Apoc is a free-for-all, with no FOC; as such, you can take a Thunderhawk, make it spiky and purple, and declare that it is your VoidAlbatross HyperFortress!

Just because a designer at GW has said "This tank is an IG, this monster is a Tyranid" doesn't stop you from disagreeing! Build a Squiggoth Grotesque, or a Warhound Talos!

When I was looking for an Apoc unit for my Skaven-Counts-As-Tyranids, who have Grey Seers(Rat Warlocks) as their Zoeanthropes, I decided that the best Skavenid Apoc model for me was a Wizards' tower, surrounded by corruscating energies, casting enhanced versions of the Zoeanthropes' Lance and Blast powers. I play it as a Counts-As-Necron-Gauss-Pylon, which is also a static model that fires blasts or lasers.

Apoc is for fun, not balanced competition, and it should be viewed as an open-source rule set for imaginative adaptation.
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Apocalypse - Dark Eldar   Sun Jul 14 2013, 19:23

Thor wrote:
That said, if they no longer scatter it could be a fair trade-off.

They dont. They also can be placed in enemy deployment, for whatever purpose that may be.

Actually, the new Kabalite Web Strike formation rely on bigger webway, that can fit vehicles, so Dark Eldar will be likely described as a webway users all the time. We just need to do a new Large Blast webway portal.

Also new Carnival of Pain is just horrendous, mighty support thing. Reducing toughness of everyone within 12 of each Talos or Cronos by 1. Improving Feel No Pain of allied DE in same radius for 4+ and when they have 4 or more tokens by 3+. Which is not very hard to achieve with cronos.

And you dont have to take any dead weight with it - Formation starts at 1 Haemy + 3 Talos/Grots.

All in all we have enough toys, and i will definately try to play some Apocalypse games.
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PostSubject: Re: Apocalypse - Dark Eldar   Sun Jul 14 2013, 21:47

@Azdrubael wrote:
Thor wrote:
That said, if they no longer scatter it could be a fair trade-off.

They dont. They also can be placed in enemy deployment, for whatever purpose that may be.
They could always be placed in the enemy deployment zone, albeit with regular scatter rules.
That they don't scatter is kind of nice - I'd call that a neutral power shift then.

@Azdrubael wrote:
Actually, the new Kabalite Web Strike formation rely on bigger webway, that can fit vehicles, so Dark Eldar will be likely described as a webway users all the time. We just need to do a new Large Blast webway portal.
Hurm...I was sort of hoping it was an update of the Splinter Raid Force. I guess I'll need to read this one.

@Azdrubael wrote:
Also new Carnival of Pain is just horrendous, mighty support thing. Reducing toughness of everyone within 12 of each Talos or Cronos by 1. Improving Feel No Pain of allied DE in same radius for 4+ and when they have 4 or more tokens by 3+. Which is not very hard to achieve with cronos.

And you dont have to take any dead weight with it - Formation starts at 1 Haemy + 3 Talos/Grots.
That's still of only semi-workable quality considering the length of time most Apoc games go on for.
It does seem to have some nice synergy possible for an assault army, which is nice as I appreciate anything that encourages assault over shooting in Apoc.

It will be obligated to be paired with something to move the Talosi up though - they are far too slow to manage just walking in Apoc. I'm thinking the Webway Assault plus this might have some potential though. Maybe paired with the Olympiad for extra awesome.

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Apocalypse - Dark Eldar   Sun Jul 14 2013, 22:21

Thor wrote:
I guess I'll need to read this one.
Place a large blast marker at the stage of deploying fortifications. Appear at any turn chosen by you. At the turn of appearing all weapons reroll to hit. Every unit must be in either venom or raider.

What unclear is - does this reroll affect dedicated transports. Cause otherwise this reroll is kinda waste, as you can have one just with Splinter Racks.

If it does, well, everybodies venoms will rock in Apoc still.

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agosyb
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PostSubject: Re: Apocalypse - Dark Eldar   Mon Jul 15 2013, 07:58

Dark Eldar are actually pretty fun in apoc. In a game where everything not a titan gets removed from the table by the handful, all that survival most armies pay for doesn't do them much good. Strategic reserves and assets allow for great, game-board sized sucker punches, and lances really start to shine against all that high armor.

The new Deldar formations are awesome, and you may as well play them every game. Its just the dark eldar codex on roids. I'm still a Talos and some Ravagers short, though. =[
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PostSubject: Re: Apocalypse - Dark Eldar   Mon Jul 15 2013, 22:41

With the new book out, I thought I'd summarise what is available to us. I won't go into what is actually in the formations as you can get a grasp of that from the GW site - note you no longer pay additional points for formations.

Formations

Carnival of Pain. Possibly the most useful and really adds a lot to a foot heavy list, especially Coven. All non-vehicles within 12 of an engine are -1 T and all friendly DE within 12 of a unit from the Carnival add +1 to their FnP. If they have 4+ tokens it is a 3+.

Dark Olympiad. Not really changed from the WD that it came in, Beasts get drugs, every unit with drugs gets two results and every time a unit from the formation gets a pain token, another unit in 24 gets a pain token. Will work nicely alongside the Carnival.

Kabalite Web Strike. A reimagining of the formation from the previous book, you place a larger WWP anywhere outside of the enemies deployment zone. It is treated like a WWP but vehicles can go through it. Formation has to go in reserve, has to embarked on transports, enter on any turn and reroll misses from shooting in that turn.

Ravager Titan Hunters. Still nice and pretty similar where you shoot a shadow ray to strip a titan of shields; the Ravagers now all get shrouded.

Sickle Squadron. Again the same from WD, acts like a S8 AP3 blade vane but for each Razorwing you get to pick a model to target.

Assets.

Combat Stimms. Nominate a warlord, all warriors within 24 get combat drugs.

Glorious Pain. At the start of any turn, all DE get a pain token, they then all lose one the next.

Lords of Twilight. Night Fight for one shooting phase.

Webway Assault. Place three WWP markers, anyone entering from strategic reserve may enter via these.

Divine Intervention.

All armies have divine intervention through their gods and entities which affects them in different ways through varying circumstances. Khaela Mensha Khaine evokes Children of the Bloody-Handed God when 50+ DE/E models are lost, all remaining models get hatred and rage. This is possibly the worst of all the divine interventions IMHO.

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Apocalypse - Dark Eldar   Tue Jul 16 2013, 18:31

It is also worth noting that Ravager Titan Hunters and Razorwing Sickle squadron is an Armored Spearhead and Flyer Wing and those have additional rules.

Provided they are positioned in a right formation they can have additional rules, good one at that.
They are called Attack Patterns.

Armored Spearhead (Ravagers) can have Tank Hunters, Prefered Enemy and +12 to movement when Flat Out.

Flyers Wing (Razorwings) can have Tank Hunters, Prefered Enemy and Strafing Run.

All this just by positioning. Great rule I think, Apoc is all about Style and there is nothing more stylish then carefully and beatifully positioned vehicles.
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PostSubject: Re: Apocalypse - Dark Eldar   Tue Jul 16 2013, 20:43

I like the sound of that ruleset.

I also like the sound of our lances potentially getting tankhunter.

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