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 Eldar/DE test list for SR

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egorey
The Duck of Death
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PostSubject: Eldar/DE test list for SR   Fri Jun 28 2013, 09:49

== Deldar ==  

2 Farseer, Jetbike 230
Baron Sathonyx 105

7 Warlocks, Jetbikes, 3 Singing Spear 365
2 Warlocks 70

7 Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, Raider, Grisly Trophies, Night Shields 153
2x 10 Guardian Defenders, Brightlance, 220
2x 6 Windrider Jetbikes, 2 Shuriken Cannons 244

9 Reaver Jetbikes, 3 Blasters, Arena Champion, Venom Blade 258

Ravager, Tri-Lance 105

== 1850 ==

== Deldar ==

2 Farseer, Jetbike 230
Baron Sathonyx 105

7 Warlocks, Jetbikes, 3 Singing Spear 365
Warlock 35

7  Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, Raider, Grisly Trophies, Night Shields 153
10 Guardian Defenders, Brightlance 110
2x 6 Windrider Jetbikes, 2 Shuriken Cannons 244

9 Reaver Jetbikes, 3 Blasters, Arena Champion, Venom Blade 258

== 1500 ==

List is meant to challenge those that think DE are weakest codex. These lists depend on the DE ...



**recently edited to reflect testing results**


Last edited by egorey on Wed Jul 03 2013, 14:06; edited 12 times in total
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bklooste
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar/DE test list for SR   Sat Jun 29 2013, 13:24

Not a good list IMHO .. The Wraith Knights are very pricey for what they do .. you have very few figures . Where will the enemy fire power go ..  i guarantee it wont be the 2+ cover save bikes or Wraith knights ( except for DE SC which love wraith knights ) .. I think the list is exceptionally weak if you go 2nd  and there is not much LOS blocking terrain..   You cant really move your whole army away ( which Jet bikes and fast skimmers are great at) because your Wraith knights will be left isolated.

Basically your opponent on turn 1 will blast your warriors raider 100% so they  will be on foot. If they can get to the bikes a lot will go down as well , they will take the warlocks first ( and you have no cover save T1 if you havent moved) . The 2* 3 wind riders cant really be used if they loose 1 ( which is pretty easy ) they have a Ld test so they need to stay back .. So you have your Wraith Knights , Reavers , whats left of your Warlocks and your 10 warriors foot slogging it vs their whole army . T2 your reavers will go so your basically left with just your Wraith Knights ..

Lastly you only have 3 very easy to deal with objective troops.

I like the basic idea with the 2+ bikes but i would dump the Wraith knights and get some Venom spam going .. and get some lances to deal with their heavy fire power.
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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar/DE test list for SR   Sun Jun 30 2013, 04:28

First off we are playing a Seer Council list. Everything else in the list is there to ensure the council does its job. On a normal table ( I stress this) you should have no problem with your Seer Council. I guess its possible you might lose a model but you should be able to provide cover for them. I fine with my Warriors to be on foot .

You have to account for going second at times. The Baron will help but there are no assurances so you need to deploy as far back as possible at times and look to get cover saves from terrain, other vehicles, etc. This is nothing new for a DE list. Certainly at 1500 you will need to be even more cautious in deployment but the list is really designed for 1850-2000. That said ... Mush has done well with few troops at 1500 relying on his two large reaver squads and grot squad.


The Seer Council is currently the among the most annoying units in 40k. With dual Seers and 7 Warlocks you are likely to get protect and fortune - not guaranteed. Of course protect is key here. At worst you are getting Guide from your Seers and if you are rolling on telepathy (which I do) you can get some nasty combinations with the warlocks. Add in the Baron and you have the flexibility to do a lot of tricks ... Baron/Seer can always split off to join reavers as well.

The list is designed to prove a point. It is a list to test against. We are trying to get Shadows to do just that on Vassal. Time will be the judge. Don't misunderstand me though. You are correct - the lists are very light on durable troops. I've got two large bike squads that are essentially glass cannons albeit the council is not easy at all to deal with and with the right powers quite devastating.  But it can be had for sure.


Last edited by egorey on Wed Jul 03 2013, 06:54; edited 3 times in total
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bklooste
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar/DE test list for SR   Sun Jun 30 2013, 06:50

I know it a seers council Death star list but that was much better in 5th .. guaranteed Fortune , no overwatch , no cover ignoring fire / plates , change to wraith blades etc. That said not opposed to council Death star but more Death star + Reavers + Wraith knight = too little on the board and the WK limit the mobility of the rest of the army..

Im not discounting T7 but only stupid players fire on them ( unless you have poison , flesh bane or instant death with a good strength) , when there are so little other figures.

If i was going to do something like that id trade the 2 WK in for 60 Defender Guardians with locks and platforms ( or more likely 40 and some walkers for anti tank) . Run them up and dont care if you loose them all - thats a serious amount of firepower diverted from you... in most cases they will make it and then the enemy is looking at say 80 Blade storm shots a turn ( and possible assaults if they are Guard /Tau) . You can Fortune/ protect the front unit but best of all the enemies focus is on them so its not on your Reavers , bikes and council and since you dont need to support the Guardians you can use them aggressively.

Its also weak against mech armies.. All you have is 3 blasters , the assault from the council and the WK ..
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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar/DE test list for SR   Sun Jun 30 2013, 13:37

The Seer is still excellent. Grantedfortune can no longer be guaranteed (75% chance now) but it is the warlock powers that now make it so annoying. If I get protect Fortune is not necessary ( although obviously welcome). I like your ideas - I will gently incorporate a few into the list without a total makeover (after all I already have the models ...)


Last edited by egorey on Wed Jul 03 2013, 06:55; edited 1 time in total
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar/DE test list for SR   Sun Jun 30 2013, 14:03

Seer council is better this edition, 2+ armour save, 2+ cover save, potentially re-rollable (we all know how hard it is to kill a jetbike model with the mantle of the laughing god). it's like harliestar with more mobility, shooting and psychic powers. Combined with the baron and his 2+ re-rollable invulnerable save, and they are almost impossible to kill in assault because of wound allocation (as you can allocated all power weapon attacks to him as long as he is base contact with the unit). Hit and run also stops the unit from being tied down.

It so much more intimidating then it was last edition.

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bklooste
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar/DE test list for SR   Sun Jun 30 2013, 15:55

Mushkilla wrote:
Seer council is better this edition, 2+ armour save, 2+ cover save, potentially re-rollable (we all know how hard it is to kill a jetbike model with the mantle of the laughing god). it's like harliestar with more mobility, shooting and psychic powers. Combined with the baron and his 2+ re-rollable invulnerable save, and they are almost impossible to kill in assault because of wound allocation (as you can allocated all power weapon attacks to him as long as he is base contact with the unit). Hit and run also stops the unit from being tied down.

It so much more intimidating then it was last edition.

The 2+ armour save is with the psychic power right ..  that +1 and reroll  goes for any Eldar unit  but to see the value of the council you need to compare it to other boosted  units .. eg the  60+ Guardians as i said above  running up the middle and the first lot has 3+ rerollable save , you take 30 -40 shots and the unit is still there and then the enemy is facing 80 -100 rending shots a turn  ( thats 12-17 AP2 shots ! ) .... It basically  guarantees your whole army can run behind and get close.  Even banshees  ( 5 Wyches running  behind them with Grenades can help cover the lack of anti vehicle) .  And i guarantee it will have his attention so focused your bikes / reavers / council can do  what it likes.  And if he does focus on the council than the Guardians will rip him to shreds. The more terrain the better...

Baron is interesting he is not going to keep up with Turbo boosts but the hit and run and setup are a big +. Pitty you can get a bike for the archon..

But i did say the Seer council is ok .. what i dont like is a Seer council with a handful of other targets on the board who will get picked off pretty quick . You need something besides the seer council  ,  it can be attacked turn 1 by a lot of armies , tar pitted etc.

egorey wrote:
The Seer is still excellent. Grantedfortune can no longer be guaranteed (75% chance now) but it is the warlock powers that now make it so annoying. If I get protect Fortune is not necessary ( although obviously welcome). I like your ideas - I will gently incorporate a few into the list without a total makeover (after all I already have the models ...) I'll make sure I have at least one more troop and a quad will suffice over an extra WK.

Let us know how it goes... you can run Guardians as suicide , hold huge  slabs of terrain   or Guardian horde with Psych  ( for T1 then  switch to the council  since it will just  Turbo boost anyway T1) its a bit like the  50 Guard blob  + Wolf priest  the top lists are running .. though the Guardian horde are better . If you do run guardian horde 20 will do   as suicide , 40+ can get real results   , if you run 40 send some wyches with grenades in with them ..

#1 thing i always ask what will they fire their at and it wont be 2+ save or 3+ save T7 stuff  and if they can easily  kill the other things can i win ..

Please don't double post, in future use the edit button. Thanks. Smile - Mush
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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar/DE test list for SR   Tue Jul 02 2013, 00:46

I like the list a great deal. But I have a question. Do the ROB debuffs stack with each other? Also would you consider taking any of the wargear stuff from the supplement for your farseers? Also wouldn't grisly trophies be idea to help with all of that Ld 8 spellcasting going on? Maybe give those warriors a gunboat with trophies to shoot from to stay close and support the death star?
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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar/DE test list for SR   Tue Jul 02 2013, 02:03

1. RoB stack
2. Wargear stuff is not necessary and expensive
3. I had taken grisly trophies but I wanted a single to try two large foot troops and an AGL.  The last time i played the list I went back to using the trophies and and a raider. They did help but the gunboat gets targeted early and often. It is hard to not have a single raider targeted.


Last edited by egorey on Wed Jul 03 2013, 06:57; edited 2 times in total
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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar/DE test list for SR   Tue Jul 02 2013, 06:08

Ok that makes sense. Id suggest since it looks like you're using the guardians and warriors as objective sitters that it might be better to shift some of the guardians to more warriors or rangers. The range on the guardians is half that of the warriors and a third that of rangers. Even though 20 guardians with a warlock is really tough realistically youre paying 240 for one lance shot a turn . Moving some of those points to another troop maybe more effective
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