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 Wraithbone Allies?

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spooniermist
Hellion
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PostSubject: Wraithbone Allies?   Tue Jun 18 2013, 12:40

Hey all,

So, I've finally had a chance to go through the Eldar Codex and have been thinking about how it can integrate with my Dark Eldar army.

After a lot of though, I'm not sure that the Eldar codex covers anything that the Dark Eldar don't already do. They are mobile (check), have some great anti-infantry in the form of shuriken weaponary (which we have from the poisoned weapons), have reliable anti tank (hello dark lances!) and have a few very good close combat units (see... well, a large chunk of our 'dex). The only things our lighter kin have, as far as I can make out, which we don't, are models which can take a beating (Wraithbone) and S6 spam. I don't really think I need S6 spam, so I've been thinking about taking Wraithbone allies.

I'm just wondering if anyone has had any experiences of using Wraithguard/Lord/Knights as allies, how they worked, if they worked, or if this idea is just awful?

Thanks all! First time poster, long time lurker, so if I infringe any rules, apologies!
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Darklight
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PostSubject: Re: Wraithbone Allies?   Tue Jun 18 2013, 13:40

@spooniermist wrote:
have reliable anti tank (hello dark lances!)

I'm just wondering if anyone has had any experiences of using Wraithguard/Lord/Knights as allies, how they worked, if they worked, or if this idea is just awful?

Thanks all! First time poster, long time lurker, so if I infringe any rules, apologies!

Sorry but that first statement is abit wrong. Darklight weapons are all but reliable. Sure they are great against AV 14 and even 13, but its all but reliable I am afraid.

On teh Wraith as allied I am trying out a few things but tbh I just have not seen any way yet to implement any other than a Farseer in to a All commers list. A FARSEER you are saying, well yes, he isnt that good for Eldar, but for DE with a jetbike in a beast group can be totaly maniac.

The problem is that we have to bring other Eldar stuff that atm just looks to not fit our currect "cheesy" lists... Anyway I am currently testing and now I am more on the Coven side of things Wink
Maby coven + Wraith might be the new power horse...

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spooniermist
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PostSubject: Re: Wraithbone Allies?   Tue Jun 18 2013, 14:10

@Darklight wrote:
Darklight weapons are all but reliable

I meant reliable in the sense that you can generally math-hammer how many hull points you are going to knock off: there's at least a 50% chance that you'll knock off a Hull Point with a hit, so you can fairly reliably say that a Ravager will knock off a single Hull point.

Okay, perhaps they're not reliable in terms of blowing up tanks, so I see your point. Anything in the Eldar 'dex which is? I'm thinking either Fire Dragons or Wraithguard!

Also, what's wrong the the Farseer? The only problem I have with an all wraithbone list is that I can't take a Farseer jetbike ally (unless I wanna use points on some troops that I won't get much out of). The idea of a farseer zipping around with my reavers is frankly hilarious.
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autopilot
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PostSubject: Re: Wraithbone Allies?   Tue Jun 18 2013, 19:28

The eldar bring much needed S6 weaponry, tougher transports, psychic powers, and a possible tougher troop if needed.

Poison is great against everything except hordes, which is where poison weapons tend to get overwhelmed. Some scatter laser war walkers, or perhaps a couple wave serpents can help mitigate that.

Only have troops in venoms? Getting blown up every turn and can't hold objectives? Bring a couple wave serpents.

Psychic powers can help an already good DE list a lot. Getting Doom and/or Fortune for a large beast pack is devastating. And you're always allowed the option of taking Guide/Prescience which can help your fire power significantly.

Wraithguard are an option, too. They bring a tough troop to the table (assuming spiritseer) and some good anti tank guns. They are expensive, however.

There's lots of things you can do with eldar allies to augment your DE force. Be it to help mitigate your weaknesses, or just for theme, its very effective.
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Darklight
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PostSubject: Re: Wraithbone Allies?   Wed Jun 19 2013, 06:09

@spooniermist wrote:
@Darklight wrote:
Darklight weapons are all but reliable

I meant reliable in the sense that you can generally math-hammer how many hull points you are going to knock off: there's at least a 50% chance that you'll knock off a Hull Point with a hit, so you can fairly reliably say that a Ravager will knock off a single Hull point.

Okay, perhaps they're not reliable in terms of blowing up tanks, so I see your point. Anything in the Eldar 'dex which is? I'm thinking either Fire Dragons or Wraithguard!

Also, what's wrong the the Farseer? The only problem I have with an all wraithbone list is that I can't take a Farseer jetbike ally (unless I wanna use points on some troops that I won't get much out of). The idea of a farseer zipping around with my reavers is frankly hilarious.

Wraithguards and Fire Dragons are very reliable of taking out atleast 1 tank, I rather like the WG for that job as they have a potential to stay alive.

But if you bring a Fareseer on a bike, put him in a beast group. Then you bring a Wraithknight (standard setup) and Weaveserpent with 5x DA inside. The DA you buy the Quadgun for. (I did exactly this yesterday) So the thing is picking powers with Farseer, first you roll, you didnt get Fortune? to bad, pick Prescience. Roll again, worst chase scenairo you didnt get fortune, so pick guid. Well now you actually got reroll on 2 targets, one is going on your Wraithknight and the other is going on a Ravager, or the beastgroup the few rounds that is needed.

Now you actually have kindoff reliable AT, expensive AT, but the WK is going to kill one veichle each round, and if you get Fortune, well then that beast group is going to be freaking amazing

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Jack Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Wraithbone Allies?   Wed Jun 19 2013, 06:27

Thanks Spoon for the questions. This thread's responses are much to be heeded.
Church.

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csjarrat
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PostSubject: Re: Wraithbone Allies?   Wed Jun 19 2013, 13:34

problem with craftworlders is that they are very expensive.

They do bring certain things that are cool though:
Tougher troops for scoring with;
jetbikes score and are as tough as marines and as quick as DE.
Rangers can infiltrate/outflank for scoring so dont need expensive transports
DA's can actually take a hit and get an armour save. exarch allows invul save for the squad too.
WG can be anti tank or troop clearer and are T6.
The wave serpent is an incredibly durable transport and makes a laughing stock of our raiders/venoms.

HQ only really brings a bit of pyschic power as archon=much better than autarch, but you can't use most of them when you're mounted up and the spiritseer is the mandatory choice if you need the WG as troops.

Where the eldar book brings in some really good new stuff is in the heavy support and fast attack.
spiders are brilliant at massed S6/7 rending and can move 20+ inches a turn. Shining spears with jet autarch are brilliant in hit n run combats for jetbike heavy and can pop transports (fusion gun on autarch, star lance on exarch)
Hawks are fast jumpers, dont scatter from DS and are loaded with haywires, whilst retaining a 4+ save.
support batteries and nightspinners bring units that DE cannot replicate in function
and this slot also opens up AA solutions that DE dont have (war walkers with flakk, dark reaper exarch with EML and flakk, fast shot and night vision).
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Starkadder
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PostSubject: Re: Wraithbone Allies?   Fri Jun 21 2013, 08:47

I've found taking a jetseer with a mob of Windriders to be very effective, even if he rolls no decent psychic powers.

Early game he sits back in cover and twinlinks my ravagers (via presience / guide) which makes them FAR more reliable for AT. As the game moves into the end-phase he and his mob are excellent for either a bit of opportunist tank popping (SSpear & Shuriken Cannons) or zooming around to hold/contest objectives.

I've seen a couple of folks using Warp Spiders; I like the idea of them, but not sure what I can afford to drop from my DE contingent.

I have considered taking a Wave Serpent with some DAs to use as a mobile venom shield (esp for my HW wyches / Blasterborn). It's hard to justify that price tag though...

So far I'm 5-1-0 with the JB allies, so it seems pretty competitive.

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thejamppa
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PostSubject: Re: Wraithbone Allies?   Sat Jun 22 2013, 13:23

And Eldars bring much better anti-flyer option in form of Crimson Hunter Exarch than Dark Kindreds Razorwing. 4 s8 ap2 shots at bs5 is nothing to sneeze about. Especially local meta here, anti-flyer options are always welcome. Especially dark kindred who have been forced here to use Razorwing or Quadguns. With Crimson Hunters, I can finally put Razorwing in its designed purpouse: Ground Attack / Terror machine that cuts down hordes of infantry.

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Hello1701
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PostSubject: Re: Wraithbone Allies?   Tue Jun 25 2013, 16:34

I think the Eldar add 2 items needed a unit that can sit on an objective ( wave serpent: too bad not an assault vehicle ) and anti-air options. I personally like the war walkers with flakk but they due take up the knight slot.
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Wraithbone Allies?   Tue Jun 25 2013, 19:50

@Hello1701 wrote:
I think the Eldar add 2 items needed a unit that can sit on an objective ( wave serpent: too bad not an assault vehicle ) and anti-air options. I personally like the war walkers with flakk but they due take up the knight slot.

I'm picking up a squad of Dark Reapers on Saturday, with a bit of magnetising they should be pretty decent anti-air. Once the exarch deals with the plane, the rest can get back to killing marines Twisted Evil

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bklooste
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PostSubject: Re: Wraithbone Allies?   Fri Jun 28 2013, 04:56

I dont think the tough Eldar stuff helps .. they just target your DE .. DE work on having many cheap glass cannons so you loose some its still ok.


What Eldar bring to the DE more cost effective Heavy fire power
Walkers - flank march or deploy in terrain with infiltrate use 2 bright lances or Scatter Laser + Bright lance cost effective..
Hornet Squadron - 1 with Scatter laser and Pulsar is 110 ..

Vs Horde
Prism - Large Template , and AP3 Template - Deal with horde or marines
Night spinner - Large high Strength template - Deal with horde we are weak at drop a large S8 plate on vehicles parkes behind a line...we struggle vs Guard and this helps a lot.

Other
Guardian bikes - cheap bikes
Farseer - spells

Anti flyer
Crimson hunter - To expensive IMHO unless your facing 3+ flyers every game.. better to avoid , guide and kill the rest of the army

Guide a ravenger and you have a 50% chance of hitting a flyer.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Wraithbone Allies?   Fri Jun 28 2013, 09:14

@Mr Believer wrote:
@Hello1701 wrote:
I think the Eldar add 2 items needed a unit that can sit on an objective ( wave serpent: too bad not an assault vehicle ) and anti-air options. I personally like the war walkers with flakk but they due take up the knight slot.

I'm picking up a squad of Dark Reapers on Saturday, with a bit of magnetising they should be pretty decent anti-air. Once the exarch deals with the plane, the rest can get back to killing marines Twisted Evil

I'm really not sure where the idea that Dark Reapers are good AA came from. You're paying 130 points for 2 S7 AP4 shots that will usually mean that the rest of the unit are wasting their own firing as they don't have any split fire ability.

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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: Wraithbone Allies?   Fri Jun 28 2013, 14:25

Its for the jink ignoring quad gun they sit on although its very expensive.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Wraithbone Allies?   Fri Jun 28 2013, 14:54

@Brom wrote:
Its for the jink ignoring quad gun they sit on although its very expensive.

Fair enough. I was curious as the Reapers alone really don't cut the mustard. Combined with a Quadgun I can see the benefits though. As you say, still very expensive!

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