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 Old miseriguts. The game I love has gone away!

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commandersasha
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PostSubject: Old miseriguts. The game I love has gone away!   Wed Jun 05 2013, 13:03

The Riptide. The Heldrake. The Dreadknight. The Wraithknight. The Doomscythe.

I don't like Flyers. They are out of scale with a 4'x6' 28mm game, they can fly really fast then turn right angles. They can kill my infantry, and there's nothing I can do back.

I don't like Walkers. As a teenager I attempted a Lego walker, and as a university robotic student a computer-controlled 2 legged walker with servos and full feedback. Walking on 2 legs is inherently unstable, requires massive processing power, and huge amounts of torque to maintain balance. Even allowing for futuristic power sources and materials, a Dreadnaught could never work, let alone something on the robotic MC scale. Stupid.

When I got into 40K, end of 4th edition, I was immediately attracted to a game that whilst having a science fiction theme, was also a tactical game where stupid mistakes were punished, careful play was reliable (though might not win), and good tactical decisions were rewarded, unless the other guy was better. It's not as pure as chess, but it also isn't as random as Snakes And Ladders.

The huge leap in power of this edition has left me feeling like the game is now much more for little boys zooming space planes over the sandpit shouting "pew-pew", and Action Man stomping on Lego men.

Yesterday, I played a Tau/Ork list, 1,500. (oh, and I hate Allies. Cheating.)
The first half of the game was depressing and boring, as the tooled-up Riptide hid in cover, splatting my army whilst I threw everything at it. This is what happens when Heldrakes appear, or Dreadknights, and the forthcoming Eldar monstrosity will be worse.
Then my buddy moved out so I could see it better, and eventually my Archon, with a Huskblade and a full soul trap, finished it.
The second half was a tense tactical battle, losses on both sides, fighting for an eventual draw, with him holding an objective, and me having all 3 secondary points.
THAT felt like Warhammer.

I'm not looking for tactical advice. I've done that, both here and on TheTyranidHive, for my Skaven-Counts-As.

What I want is to not have to face these units that I feel should have stayed on the Apocalypse table, or at best a separate expansion system that I could tell my friends that I don't want to play.

But I don't want to be THAT guy. How do I say to my friends that the models that they like, and have paid £££s for (or, in the case of the Wraithknight, £££££££££££s), are having a very detrimental effect on MY enjoyment of the game, to the extent that I often feel like shelving the whole game?

The recent slew of new codecii mean that our gaming group is LOVING 40K, and has dropped all other games. I am the only one who doesn't like these new unit types (and coincidentally the only one who doesn't like Anime/transformer films and games).

I feel like I'm in a cycling club, and half the new members are bringing motorbikes, because they are faster, easier and noisier. I just like pedalling!

Am I being a grouch? Should I just grow a pair, buy a Voidraven, take some Eldar allies and a BarbieKnight?

(To be fair, a couple of my friends turn up "trying out a list without flyers", as they know my feelings, especially as most of our games are at my house, but then I just feel like a heel!)
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Old miseriguts. The game I love has gone away!   Wed Jun 05 2013, 14:24

I can see the point you're making, but it's basically the same difference as the change from 2nd ed to 3rd, whereby it went from basically a skirmish game (rules were far too detailed for large scale battles) to war on a rather grander scale.

It always seemed, quite frankly, stupid to me (and my brother) that a game set so far in the future had no aircraft input. We already know these days that air superiority leads to the winning of wars so why should that not be the same in the universe we play games in.

With regard to the walker question yes, of course it's impractical given current levels of technology, that's one reason why the setting is so far in the future because who can predict what leaps in technology might lead to the creation of something like that. The main reason for them of course is that the models look cool.

Some might take issue with describing allies as cheating since it's in the rulebook, I personally don't plan on using them unless specifically in a league/tournament where that's the whole purpose. I wouldn't go so far as to say cheating, but it's definitely tactically lazy.

In answer to your last question though, you're not being a grouch, but i suspect you are being somewhat nostalgic about a previous edition that you preferred playing. No need to jump in with both feet, but you do need to be tactically aware of what you might have to face and how to address it (for example, a friend of mine has no flyers in his 1500 throne of skulls list, but won all five of his games last tournament thanks to Vulkan and 4 multi melta attack bikes).

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PostSubject: Re: Old miseriguts. The game I love has gone away!   Wed Jun 05 2013, 18:45

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:

It always seemed, quite frankly, stupid to me (and my brother) that a game set so far in the future had no aircraft input. We already know these days that air superiority leads to the winning of wars so why should that not be the same in the universe we play games in.

Well some Sci-fi universes e.g. Hammer's Slammers have no flyers because they simply get shot out of the sky. It is entirely credible that in a future world flyers have no survivability on/above the battlefield.

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hellios
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PostSubject: Re: Old miseriguts. The game I love has gone away!   Sat Jun 08 2013, 11:58

I don't think the new Wraithknight is that good.

On the other hand, I do have some objections to some of the bigger models.

They seem to be making bigger models for the sake of bigger models... Which is what apocalypse is about... But I'm not sure it is great for 40K... I also think it takes away from some armies... Nids... GDs... Not so impressive anymore.

Flyers annoy me... not because of the rules but just placing them. I have an Elysian AirCav army and that is a pain in the ass to move around on the board with 6 Valkyrie sized vehicles at 1,500pts. Even when they were skimmers in 5th... Moving them as flyers kills me... especially if I'm stuck playing on a 4X4.
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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Old miseriguts. The game I love has gone away!   Mon Jun 10 2013, 14:08

why are dreadknights or riptides giving you a problem anyway??? DE poison shooting turns them into 250pt termies and marines respectively...

As for flyers, I see your problem, but it comes with adapting to a new edition. We have these flyers too, and have allies that have access to some of the best flyers out there. You live, you learn, you adapt to how the game is played. If you dont, then just stop playing. It maybe harsh, but its the truth. Your friends have all adapted and are doing fine. Why havent you?

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Old miseriguts. The game I love has gone away!   Mon Jun 10 2013, 14:20

I don't take flyers, allies or big gribblies. I still have a good time and winning is all the more rewarding. Smile

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