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 What Are Wracks?

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Ben_S
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PostSubject: What Are Wracks?   Mon May 13 2013, 18:29

I'm curious as to what/where Wracks come from.

The Codex (p. 39) says that Grotesques "generally begin existence as Dark Eldar" - the implication being not always. With regard to Wracks (p. 38), it's less explicit: it's clear from the last paragraph that many of them begin as Dark Eldar, but not whether all do.

I was wondering in light of the Tau 'cultural exchange' (pp. 18-19). The Tau have been transformed into something, but it's not explicit whether they're turned into Grotesques, Wracks, or both.

If Wracks can indeed begin life as other lesser beings, then it opens up some interesting conversion potential, such as Ork-based Wracks. Something like these perhaps:
http://www.thedarkcity.net/t4888-would-you-laugh-these-wracks-off-the-table

Anyone have a definitive answer to this?
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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Wracks?   Mon May 13 2013, 21:05

I think wracks are just apprentice haemonculi

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PostSubject: Re: What Are Wracks?   Mon May 13 2013, 22:53

wracks are generally dark eldar trying to become Haemonculi, basically think them as apprentices working for a master. They learn things, and he gets a decent assistant.

Now I don't see why an eccentric (and that's saying something for Dark Eldar) couldn't make another race into a wrack. Its just add a few limbs here... inject pain suppressants there, but I doubt they are treated as well as a regular wrack. Most DE society can barely stand themselves, much less an outside race helping along.

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Ben_S
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Wracks?   Mon May 13 2013, 23:20

My question was really about where Wracks come from - or what they were before they were Wracks - but these answers are interesting, since they suggest a very different notion of what Wracks actually are (and presumably imply that they have to be Dark Eldar, assuming no other race can become a Haemonculus).

The description in the Codex says that Wracks are modified servants who perform physical labour for the Haemonculi. I take this to be the essential or defining feature of what it is to be a Wrack, rather than being a Haemonculus-in-training (though some may be that too). This seems perfectly consistent with other races being used, rather like mini-Grotesques (perhaps to some extent I'm influenced by the fact that Wracks are the closest to what used to be Grotesques).

There is one sentence saying that most Wracks hope to become Haemonculi. However, I wouldn't read so much in to that. It's not clear that many do - this could be an utterly vain hope - and, even if it's a realistic aspiration for most Wracks, it does only say most. It could be an option just those who were DE, thus entirely consistent with other (non-DE) Wracks who have no chance of becoming Haemonculi. So, perhaps most Wracks are apprentice Haemonculi, but it doesn't follow that all are (or, therefore, that this is what it is to be a Wrack).

I only really know the Codex, so is there some other source that suggests that Wracks are simply apprentice Haemonculi (and thus DE)? Because it's really not the impression I get from the Codex (which seems to suggest some don't even hope to become Haemonculi).
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Wracks?   Mon May 13 2013, 23:54

I've just read path of the renegade it gives a good insight into the workings of the dark city and the dark eldar culture, wracks very much appear to be apprentices.
It's a very good read i would highly recommend it.
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Wracks?   Tue May 14 2013, 03:11

I am under the impression that the Wracks can be either Dark Eldar or, as the War of Dark Revelations with the Tau suggests, anything of interest that a haemonculus gets his talons on that he deems useful. Regardless, I have to ask: is one of the wrack conversions an old necromunda goliath? Because, if so, that's awesome.

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PostSubject: Re: What Are Wracks?   Tue May 14 2013, 07:53

Cartoon-Peril wrote:
I am under the impression that the Wracks can be either Dark Eldar or, as the War of Dark Revelations with the Tau suggests, anything of interest that a haemonculus gets his talons on that he deems useful. Regardless, I have to ask: is one of the wrack conversions an old necromunda goliath? Because, if so, that's awesome.

Indeed, first picture, the second guy from the left.
Good eyes.
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Wracks?   Wed May 15 2013, 10:21

Cartoon-Peril wrote:
I am under the impression that the Wracks can be either Dark Eldar or, as the War of Dark Revelations with the Tau suggests, anything of interest that a haemonculus gets his talons on that he deems useful.

I'm glad someone shares my view, though part of the reason I asked is that the Tau story doesn't mention Wracks as far as I can see, so whatever the truth it isn't really explicit in the Codex.

Still, having thought about the 'apprentice Haemonculi' interpretation, it still doesn't seem that plausible to me. First, if that's what they were, I'd expect the Codex to say that, rather than that they're assistants to the Haemonculi. To use an analogy with medicine, if Haemonculi are doctors/surgeons, I imagine Wracks to be more like nurses than medical students (though they may encompass both).

Further, the entry on Haemonculi suggests a) that they're all very ancient and b) no one knows how one becomes a Haemonculus. These claims seem at odds with there being a clear apprenticeship scheme.

Finally, applying common sense rather than lore, professional craftsmen may take on lots of assistants but only a few apprentices, only one of whom may ultimately take over the business (though more may hope to). Add in the fact that Haemonculi are functionally immortal, however, and it's really not clear they would need apprentices in any significant numbers at all.

Of course, debates about fluff aren't like debates about rules - we don't need any common agreement and can each continue to have our own interpretation - but I definitely don't see Wracks as apprentice Haemonculi. (That is, I don't see that this is what it is to be a Wrack; though I can accept that Wracks may include some apprentices.) If BL novels suggest otherwise so be it, but I'm not inclined to see them as authorities over canon.

A shame that none of this really settles whether an Ork or a Tau could become a Wrack, because it could make for interesting conversions, but I think I'll stick to something more traditional.
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Wracks?   Wed May 15 2013, 11:33

With this hobby you can do whatever you want. So if you want to make Wracks out of Orks and/or Tau I don't see why you wouldn't.

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PostSubject: Re: What Are Wracks?   Wed May 15 2013, 12:57

tlronin wrote:
With this hobby you can do whatever you want. So if you want to make Wracks out of Orks and/or Tau I don't see why you wouldn't.

Indeed, write your own back story as to how it happened - although I'm not sure Orks are intelligent enough to be wracks without brain surgery scratch - and go for it, it doesn't change the stats on the board so knock yourself out.

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PostSubject: Re: What Are Wracks?   Wed May 15 2013, 13:27

Quote :
To use an analogy with medicine, if Haemonculi are doctors/surgeons, I imagine Wracks to be more like nurses than medical students (though they may encompass both).

I think the end bit is right. They are a mix of nurse and med student.
Not all will become haemonculus, just those intelligent enough to learn, and those intelligent enough to convince the master they arent learning enough to be a threat will accrue enough knowledge to leave, and begin their own flesh smithing.
But yeah, theres no reason you cant use orks, or tau, or humans.

My Grotesques are mostly Tyranids, fluffed as pit beasts from the wych arena.

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PostSubject: Re: What Are Wracks?   Wed May 15 2013, 18:18

I think all wracks are formerly dark eldar whose life after centuries evolves around nothing but pain (both on the recieving and inflicting end) and only the most intense stimulations can saturate their hunger. So they walk down into a coven to devote themselves absolutely as both the dominatrix and slave of pain (for a lack of a better term)

I don't buy the "used to be tau or ork" theory. Differently from grotesques wracks maintain their free will, while a grotesque is the "penitent engine" of the Deldar. It's a punishment. They are lobotomised and have no free will, and can therefore be used to attack their former ally.

A wrack is in his position of his own will, and continues to serve his heamonculi masters every whim whether it is himself who is put on the slap, or any hapless victim.

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PostSubject: Re: What Are Wracks?   Thu May 16 2013, 13:31

Jehoel wrote:
I think all wracks are formerly dark eldar whose life after centuries evolves around nothing but pain (both on the recieving and inflicting end) and only the most intense stimulations can saturate their hunger. So they walk down into a coven to devote themselves absolutely as both the dominatrix and slave of pain (for a lack of a better term)

I do actually really like this idea, but I do also agree with above I think they have left it a little open so people can come to their own conclusions.

Personally I wouldnt rule out the ork/tau/other slave idea though, I think wracks can come from any race, including dark eldar, a haemonculus is always on the look out for the toughest specimen to transform into one of his assistants and if they do not come willingly or do not obey he will give the a taste of the pain he can inflict and they will swifty change their minds and bow to him
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Wracks?   Sat May 18 2013, 09:46

I have to disagree too, the fluff clearly says it's dark eldar are turned into wracks and it's even clear for grots too. Only a dark eldar can be changed into a grot, the whole process is eldar specific. Being trasnformed into a grot is a punishment only inflicted on a dark eldar, making you theory about Tau bases grots nonsence.

The problem I encounter with transforming any race into a wrack is the power from pain, it's an eldar related matter. BTW not even an eldar can be changed into a wrack, wracks become wracks by choice, it's a result from the power from pain, from years of abuse of this power. The archons can keep their desires in check because of their resources, the old the get, the more pain power you need, normal DE can't afford to kill a thousand slaves to be satified, so they turn to the Heamonculi for help. it's easier to become a Heamonculus than becoming an archon, weirdly, the path to becoming a heamonculus becomes with a choice, you chose to become a wrack.
You don't chose to become a wych or a Kabalite warriors, you get picked because you're a killer and you're good at it. The power from pain is a demanding thirst, it gets worse over the years. Most warriors and wyches aren't that old by this logic. To become as desperate as a future wrack, you need to have experienced this thirst during, Can a human ,orc, tau have experienced this? I don't think so.

BTW on eldar becoming a Dark Eldar, yes it's possible, but they'll mostlikely go Kabalite in most cases, to be go wych is possible, but you'd have to be a craftworlder/exodite/corsair obsessed by close combat fighting only. Most eldar go Kabalite because of the freedom offered, nothing to do with killing or fighting, but it is required obviously, it is a warrior society after all.


The Tau thing has a much easier explaination, nobody has seemed to get. They used the skin only. Do you think Urien only uses skin as humans use fur? It goes a little deeper I admit, can easily go as far as replace the skin completely by an alien skin. In the Path of the Renege, I remember at one point, the wrack takes off his mask and his face is pretty much skeletical, either the face was cut a lot, or simpler: the skin was removed.

The old fluff mentioned humans being able to be turned into Heamonculi, but the current fluff nullifies this. Humans don't have the power from pain, neither do other races non eldar races. The medusae are an exception, because they're a parasite that infect a host with such a power.
Old fluff didn't say who was turned into a wrack, but new fluff is very clear on this.

You can make wracks and grots with weird colors, but it's just skin on them, their origin wasn't non eldar like you're trying to say. You can do nuts on colors, but I wouldn't go nuts on too farfetches conversions like putting orc bodies and arms on wracks, they are still dark eldar, proud to be the best race in the universe. A heamonculus would never do it, just never All the body inplants they put on themselves if from organic origin, they come from other eldar. You can also put weird skin on grots, however their main body is from eldar origin.

Talos and cronos ,though forgotten mostly in this thread are also from Dark Eldar origin btw as they also have the power from pain.

Forgettign appearance, the metal of the eldar is something you completely forget. Humans, orcs, are basically both dumb and they would certainly not obey Heamonculus like like dogs, certainly no willingly, though it can be archieved through torture. The real wracks obey the heamonculi from the start 100% willingly. Forgetting the obeying part, thinking themselves can't be done. A human, orc, tau, etc... can't think at the same lvl as an eldar.

Do you seriously think a wrack would act like an obedient retard if he was somewhere alone? No , trust me, he would act like any dark eldar. Wracks are obedient towards their heamonculi masters, but not towards other dark eldar per se.


Quote :
The Codex (p. 39) says that Grotesques "generally begin existence as Dark Eldar" - the implication being not always. With regard to Wracks (p. 38), it's less explicit: it's clear from the last paragraph that many of them begin as Dark Eldar, but not whether all do.
You sir are a funny one. It's very clearly written in the codex is dark eldar only.
The "generally" isn't written, same goes for the "many", the phrases used are very clear, nowhere anytime vague on the subject. Both are very specific results of something. Wracks is a thrist that needs to be satisfied, they can't do it alone, so they seek help from the heamonculi, in return, they obey them.
For grots, it's a very specific punishment inflicted on dark eldar only.

The biggest thorn in your theory is the power from pain that nullies all claims about other races being transformed in wracks or grotesques.

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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Wracks?   Sat May 18 2013, 09:54

Except fluff specifically shows Tau being turned into grotesques....
Was "blue grey colouration all too familiar to the tau" and "mere seconds after the Tau realised what had happened to their cultural exchange" too subtle?

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PostSubject: Re: What Are Wracks?   Sat May 18 2013, 11:10

Khain mor wrote:
I have to disagree too, the fluff clearly says it's dark eldar are turned into wracks and it's even clear for grots too. Only a dark eldar can be changed into a grot, the whole process is eldar specific.

I'm not sure who you're disagreeing with, but I think you're clearly wrong about the Grot point.

I note that you're in Belgium, so I don't know whether you have a translation of the Codex or are reading the English one in what's presumably not your first language - it's possible that a translated version isn't quite the same - but the English edition very clearly says that Grots generally begin as Dark Eldar. Not always or invariably, but generally = for the most part. If this was, as you suggest, always the case then it would be positively misleading to say 'generally' rather than 'always'.

As for the Wracks, I'm inclined to think they probably do all begin as Dark Eldar, but the Codex isn't 100% clear and explicit on this. The nearest it comes is the last paragraph, where it says that they choose their own fate. That sentence doesn't have any explicit scope, so something has to be inferred - i.e. you could read it as 'ALL Wracks choose their own fate' or 'MOST Wracks choose their own fate'. The former is probably more natural, but both involve making an assumption that isn't explicitly stated.

In both cases, I think the Haemonculus's modifications can adequately explain why his creations have different stats from their base material, including Power From Pain and (if relevant) their obedience.
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