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 SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex

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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Tue Apr 16 2013, 14:15

Stape
Only one Deldar Choice is completely useless (Mandrakes), and most of the rest are at least useable, some suffer from Slot Envy.
Its actually possible to do more than one thing with Deldar and win and lose.



Barking
Very good point.
But I dont see them maintaining the pressure.
Maybe they will,

Rest
Grey Knights are beyond broken.
See my sig.

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Tony Spectacular
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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Tue Apr 16 2013, 14:24

Mushkilla wrote:
A lot of old necron players I know are too ashamed to play with their necrons any more. it's like if Matt Ward did our codex nd it became broken, I would probably take a long hiatus from the hobby.

One of the two necrons guys in my club has zero flyers. He outright refused to take that advantage. And he does ok. Wins more than he loses, but it's always a fun game. Just because you have some incredibly OP cheese doesn't mean you have to field it.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Tue Apr 16 2013, 14:47

Tony Spectacular wrote:
Mushkilla wrote:
A lot of old necron players I know are too ashamed to play with their necrons any more. it's like if Matt Ward did our codex nd it became broken, I would probably take a long hiatus from the hobby.

One of the two necrons guys in my club has zero flyers. He outright refused to take that advantage. And he does ok. Wins more than he loses, but it's always a fun game. Just because you have some incredibly OP cheese doesn't mean you have to field it.

Oh I agree. There's actually something to be said for a horde of Warriors. 6 units of 20 each with a Res Orb and hopefully in some sort of cover takes a great deal of shifting!

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Sulphunet
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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Tue Apr 16 2013, 16:04

@strapebren

I had to read over what you wrote a couple of times, is English your first language? Seems to be very rough and your grammar is something else completely. Anyway, our codex is balanced because we can take many of our units and still fair well in a fight. We don't have any "OH, THAT UNIT" entries and that is why we're balanced. From what I've seen, our Incubi cause the most fear in Space Marine players because of AP2 weapons and high Initiative. And the Incubi are still not hard to deal with, only T3 and they usually ride in on a Venom. Not tough at all.

Our Splinter Weapons are great for getting shots in, but they only have AP5. You still need a lot of Splinter fire to take down a unit of 10 Marines, and that's because we completely ignore their Toughness.

Our Heavy Weapons are very nice too, but we don't have any S10 weapons and only the Voidraven has S9. Not insanely strong, but good enough to get the job done (Remember, Lance weapons bring armour down to AV12)

So that is why we're balanced, and also why we will probably be getting a 6.75 codex and just a straight 6th edition. Kind of a grim fate to wait for, but that's probably what will happen.

Please don't be too picky about language. We encourage everybody to use English to the best of their ability,so please keep it friendly. Cheers - Cavash.

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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Tue Apr 16 2013, 16:13

Stape, I mean balanced as in compared to other to have been released around the time of our codex or since. The points are well woked out, not like, as Dominic says, the Grey Knights. Points are well thought out per unit.
Quote :

Cav, my point is that there aren't many other armies. There are ten, and they are: Bood Angels, Eldar, Grey Knights, Imperial Guard, Necrons, Orks, Sisters of Battle, Space Marines, Space Wolves, and Tyranids. That's it. And even if all of them were ahead of Dark Eldar in the queue, that is still only 10 new codices in 40+ months, when thus far they've released 4 codices in 10 months

Maybe this is because with some recen developments that have proved toshake people's faith in GW they are trying to win back favour. A lot of people didn't (and still don't) like Finecast. The recent price increase was expected, it's business after all, but things like their Death From the Skies supplement and Once-Click bundles are shameful. You would have thought that purchasing all these shiny new models together in an offer would give some sort of price decrease, but no.
As you pointed out, there are also the WHFB armies, but then what if they do not carry on with releasing all of these new models at once and go back to wave releases? If they release supplements for special models then they would release models too. Things like Blood Bowl and Apocalypse have been rumoured to be getting some more attention this year. Alog with the Hobbit in december I doubt that they will continue releasing codices at this rate.

Even if they don't have a lot of ideas for more books like Cities of Death GW should be able to think of something else to do. If it gets to the point where they are releasing army after army causing a load of people to be continually jumping from race to race then I will be dissapointed with the hobby and focus more on other aspects of the hobby.
It's supposed to be fun. It isn't supposed to be draining wallets (not at this rate, anyway. Razz )

Quote :
I just don't want Dark Eldar to become an easy to use straight forward face-beater codex like necrons or guard.
Also, I agree with this a thousand times!
Quote :

To bring us in line what would they have to change?
Dumb down the overpoweredness of some other race's units! Razz

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Tue Apr 16 2013, 16:29

2013 is a year of 40k. This rate of new codexes wont be infinite.

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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Tue Apr 16 2013, 18:48

Sorry about my remark Cavash, and to you too strapebren.

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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Tue Apr 16 2013, 19:41

Barking Agatha wrote:


Current evidence suggests that there will be a 6th edition codex for Dark Eldar,

Evidence?

Really?

Laughing


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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Tue Apr 16 2013, 20:20

Look at it like this:

In 2013,

Eldar (July), Space Marines (October-ish)

In 2014

Tyranids (Jan), Imperial Guard (April-ish), Orks (October-ish)

In 2015

Let's say Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights

In 2016, all we have left are Necrons, Sisters of Battle, and Dark Eldar, and (probably) 7th edition. That's just releasing 3 codices per year, not an unusually fast rate.

In addition to that, I doubt that Dark Eldar would actually be dead last. A whole year of Space Marine releases one after another? Seems unlikely. Much depends on which lines need a bit of a sales boost, and when, if ever, the sisters of battle will be done.
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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Wed Apr 17 2013, 01:49

Sulphunet wrote:
I'd rather a new one for the Sisters of Battle, the White Dwarf article is not good enough in my opinion.

This is the thing I hope for most as far as 40k goes at the moment, that and them not being all metal and expensive, but the two would likely go hand in hand.

Barking Agatha wrote:
Look at it like this:

In 2013,

Eldar (July), Space Marines (October-ish)

In 2014

Tyranids (Jan), Imperial Guard (April-ish), Orks (October-ish)

In 2015

Let's say Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights

In 2016, all we have left are Necrons, Sisters of Battle, and Dark Eldar, and (probably) 7th edition. That's just releasing 3 codices per year, not an unusually fast rate.

In addition to that, I doubt that Dark Eldar would actually be dead last. A whole year of Space Marine releases one after another? Seems unlikely. Much depends on which lines need a bit of a sales boost, and when, if ever, the sisters of battle will be done.

You missed Black Templars. I would hope they and SoB and Orks would be in front of Guard and nids at least as they need it the most.
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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Wed Apr 17 2013, 05:36

Black Templars, I fear, will be no more. Maybe they'll get a bit in codex: space marines, but they won't be a separate army with their own codex again. That is, unless they end up replacing the Sisters, and I hope not.

GW seem to have gone back to the old 'big four': Ultramarines, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels. After all, how many different codices sharing the same line of miniatures do you need?
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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Wed Apr 17 2013, 07:23

There are 15 armies on the GW website.
SoBs are one, BTs arent.

Personaly, I think space marines could be just as good with one codex, using a sort of "doctrines" system like Guard used to have.
Lets be honest, none are that different.

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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Wed Apr 17 2013, 12:31

Dark Angels weren't either until they got their new codex.

Also, I don't particularly consider rumours of what might be coming out to be real evidence. It's more of speculation. GW have got better at keeping things a secret recently, too, so who knows? They could have something nobody expects in store, postponing more codices for a few months at some point.

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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Wed Apr 17 2013, 19:15

Obviously it's all guessing, but it makes sense that they would want to limit their line to 15 different armies, same as in Warhammer Fantasy. Therefore the only way that Black Templars could get their own codex would be if they push another army off the list, most likely the Sisters, because they do not have their own line of retail miniatures. I would prefer it if that didn't happen, and GW would also benefit more from bringing out a new line of Sisters miniatures than from yet another codex pushing the same space marines sets they already have, but who knows.

Rumours aside, it doesn't matter which codices are published when. All you need to assume is that GW will release at least 3 codices every year, and they will eventually get to the Dark Eldar before 7th edition. Unavoidably, unless you believe that they could go an entire year releasing only one codex or two, which is inconsistent with their recent behaviour. They are a publicly traded company and must report consistent growth, so going back to a slower pace isn't really an option for them.
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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Thu Apr 18 2013, 10:42

Well, they could skip ours, if they are happy with the codex we have, and sales are still OK.

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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Mon Apr 22 2013, 10:54

I would love a new codex, as long as it is better than the abomination we have now.
Perhaps this time they will take their time to actually finish the codex? To me it feels like is half done.
The old decintogrator whuld be nice, and the old wych weapons whould make the myches decent again, plasma granids for incubi.
Or perhaps just add the flyers and the beastpack to the old codex Very Happy
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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Mon Apr 22 2013, 11:14

Quote :
I would love a new codex, as long as it is better than the abomination we have now.
Perhaps this time they will take their time to actually finish the codex? To me it feels like is half done.

What do you mean? What makes you think that our codex is an abomination.

(I agree that the old disintergrators would be wonderful, though.)

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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Mon Apr 22 2013, 12:02

Talos wrote:
I would love a new codex, as long as it is better than the abomination we have now.
Perhaps this time they will take their time to actually finish the codex? To me it feels like is half done.
The old decintogrator whuld be nice, and the old wych weapons whould make the myches decent again, plasma granids for incubi.
Or perhaps just add the flyers and the beastpack to the old codex Very Happy

I think the one we got now is fantastic.
Its not half done at all, and we cant expect to get everythign we want. Incubis are incredible killing machines, with granades they would be OP (for what they are doing).

Yes, the old disintergrators where fantastic, Horrorfex aswell... But they need to sell. So they need to change it up abit.
Our models and curent codex is alot better in my opinion than the last one. And we have one of the best codexes in the game imo. (maby not competitive vice).

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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Mon Apr 22 2013, 12:18

I have to say I have very few problems with the current codex.

Sure it would be nice: if reavers had assault grenades, and the talos had "it will not die", wyches need a slight point break/readjust, some of the vehicle upgrades need another look, power from pain could use some tweaks (like boosts that happen past 3 pain tokens), archon's court needs a fix, mandrakes need a fix.

But that's a very short list, and none of those make any of those units unplayable (apart from mandrakes).

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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Mon Apr 22 2013, 14:49

I'm a newcomer to this army; I bought the codex on release, and thought it was one of the best written I have read, and now that I am soaking up tactica and BatReps, I think it is still healthily competitive, even though a few units and builds have been nerfed (WWP and Mandrakes obviously so).

I personally don't think a new codex is necessary at the moment, although a WD supplement or FAQ that fixes the above issues would be nice; what I hope DOESN'T happen is that we are one of the last to get a new codex before the next big rule change!

Too many codecii have too many things now: the PA lists are all too similar, and I think this is a shame. I hope that the next C:SM gets traits back, or expanded company tactics from leaders, as I would like to see an Imperial Fists army play differently to a Salamanders, whereas they are currently just yellow or green marines.

If Reavers and Incubi had grenades, they would be too Mary Jane: everything should need synergy to be effective, or we'd all end up with, er, Heldrakes!
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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Mon Apr 22 2013, 16:17

What and way I think is the De codex is half finished.
First off, this is based on my playing experience with the army.

The codex is playable, you can even make good armies with it, however Ito me it feel unfinished. It has tons of useless equipment, like the electro whip to name one. At point cost is of all over the place.
Agonizer as an example it cost the same on everyone. In a space marine armies this is not a problem with pw, because there sergeants and IC have a difference on one attack, for the DE however, the price of agonizer is the same for a character how get one attack with is, as for a character how gets five. Then we have darklight weapons, the lance cost is ridiculously high, the cost for the short range blast pistol is a joke.

Power from pain
This is cool rule, I like the fluff behind it. But it does not function smoothly on the table top. The major problem is that PtP support larger units, then the rest of codex favour msu. Pain tokens should be massed in CC, like they are then an IC joins a squad,

Warriors
All they do is mass fire, with is only impressive when the opponent has high T models, or they can blast suicide. Both of with are done better by other units. There anti-tank guns is overpriced, and mass splinter fire are done better by other units.

Wyches
wych weapons are sadly a joke, they might as well not been in the codex at all. The sharnet is overpriced for its situational use, the hydra gauntlet is worse chose than adding another wych, and so is the razorflail.

Darklight wrote:

Incubis are incredible killing machines, with granades they would be OP (for what they are doing).
Right, assault grenades on expensive high I low T models is op, Especially when the unit in question lack range weapons

I should probably stop here before all here starts to think that I hate my dark elder….
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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Mon Apr 22 2013, 16:37

Our codex may have some flaws, but at least people still have fun playing against any army we make. A bunch of the new armies have lists that are just too stupidly overpowered that it isn't really fun anymore.

Plus if we do get a new codex, the writer may screw us over. I say just be happy with the one we have, it works well enough.

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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Mon Apr 22 2013, 18:46

I think it depends. If you want a codex that lets you make a decent army that you can win with then sure, the current codex works fine.

On the other hand, look at the new codices with their hard covers and glossy illos. Look at their warlord traits, the different options they get, the special rules, the character, the complexity. They're making old armies into brand new toys. Our codex looks a bit simple by comparison.

It seems they're writing codices under a new philosophy, and I for one will be chuffed when they get around to Dark Eldar.
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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Mon Apr 22 2013, 20:02

Be careful what you wish for Shocked

As has already been mentioned a new edition of rules or army lists can kill your passion for a game quicker than anything else.

For what it's worth I like what we have, could live with some tweaks but would rather they leave well alone than arse it up attempting a revamp.

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PostSubject: Re: SOOO Do you think We will get a 6th edition codex   Mon Apr 22 2013, 21:56

That is why I think so many people are dead set against the idea of a new codex. There seems to be a disturbing fear of change, a knee-jerk reflex to say that if it ain't broke, then don't fix it, and leave well enough alone.

Sure sometimes a change can be for the worse, but GW have done a pretty good job with 6th edition so far, so why not have a little faith?
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