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 Two questions from tonight's game

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mug7703
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PostSubject: Two questions from tonight's game   Fri Mar 22 2013, 02:54

Hi all, two things came up in a game I had tonight and I'd appreciate the wisdom of the Dark City to find the answers.

Firstly, if it is night fight, can a manticore target a unit that is more than 36" away. I'm not sure how this works with the whole 'indirect fire' rule.

Secondly, if a Reaver jetbike unit fell back and then regrouped, it can't turboboost in the shooting phase right?
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Tiri Rana
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PostSubject: Re: Two questions from tonight's game   Fri Mar 22 2013, 03:43

BRB p.34 wrote:
...This means they can fire at a target they do not have line of sight to...

BRB p.124 wrote:
The shooting unit cannot pick a target more than 36" away - such units are
completely hidden in the darkness.

The problem is that the night fighting rules don't say that a shooting unit doesn't have line of sight to a unit more than 36" away, but it just forbids picking it as a target.
I'd say that it's probably RAI, to let a Barrage weapon shoot at a target more than 36" away, but the rules don't realy support it.

BRB p.31 wrote:
Once a unit has regrouped, it cannot otherwise move (so cannot
Run in the Shooting phase or charge in the Assault phase).

Turbo Boosting isn't explicitly mentioned, but it's a move, so you can't do it.

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Darkgreen Pirate
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PostSubject: Re: Two questions from tonight's game   Fri Mar 22 2013, 05:03

I think the Reaver ruling is spot on, turboboost is kind of the reaver equivalent of a "run" move.

My first reaction would be to say their eldar jetbike move would not be allowed either, but they can use the 2d6" move in the assault phase even if they have arrived by Deepstrike-a rule that normally precludes all other voluntary movement....hmmmmm Twisted Evil

Anyone notice that ATSKNF is so much more powerful now!?!

Barrage weapons cannot target a unit they cannot see-but can fire at a unit they do not have line of sight too. In fact the only time a unit can fire at an unit it cannot see or is hidden due to nightfight that I can think of is Greyknights using astral aim; and it has specific rules regarding cover etc.

The difference is in the language used; line of sight is drawing a line from the firing unit to the target unit and deciding if it can be seen due to intervening terrain etc. So if a unit is on the board and spotted- if you will- by another unit but the manticore is behind a mountain and cannot draw a clear unimpeded line of sight to the target it may fire indirectly; using relayed coordinates etc for targeting. Not as accurate and represented by the larger scatter distance when fired in this manner.

As far as firing at a unit that no-one can see, then no way. Completely hidden by darkness is the rule- as in invisible, not being seen, not there. Firing at a target like that would be the equivalent of wasting his holy emperors ordnance, and the entire unit would have to be removed from play as soon as the Commissar heard about it. Laughing

In fairness maybe if another unit were able to see the target unit then allowing the stealth/shrouded cover saves calculated from the spotting unit even if firing cover denying barrages ( like from a whirlwind) would be an equitable solution?


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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Two questions from tonight's game   Fri Mar 22 2013, 05:09

I would say reavers could indeed turbo boost when rallying. Nothing forbids the move in the morale section that I can find.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Two questions from tonight's game   Fri Mar 22 2013, 07:19

GW is so inconsistent with this sort of thing. In some places, Slow and Purposeful for example, they say

Quote :
cannot Run, Turboboost, move Flat Out,

but in other places they only say Run. Did they do that deliberately and Run means Run (only) or was it an omission and Run inlcudes other types of movement used in place of running?

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Two questions from tonight's game   Fri Mar 22 2013, 11:28

That strengthens my case. The fact they specify it for other sections gives some validity to my side of the discussion.

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Tony Spectacular
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PostSubject: Re: Two questions from tonight's game   Fri Mar 22 2013, 11:59

I think that since it happens in the shooting phase, in any circumstance where they are allowed to shoot they are allowed to turboboost. It takes the place of shooting, right?

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Two questions from tonight's game   Fri Mar 22 2013, 12:32

it does take place in shooting phase. A unit that has regrouped can shoot - but only snap shots...

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baster
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PostSubject: Re: Two questions from tonight's game   Fri Mar 22 2013, 22:05

ok so how do you snap fire the turbo boosters.......sry i couldn't resist
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Two questions from tonight's game   Sat Mar 23 2013, 10:21

@Massaen wrote:
I would say reavers could indeed turbo boost when rallying. Nothing forbids the move in the morale section that I can find.

What's unclear about page 31? It says quite clearly the unit "cannot otherwise move" and then lists some examples. As far as I'm concerned turboboosting is moving. and a unit that cannot move cannot turboboost. If it said cannot move in its movement phase I would agree with you, but as it stands I don't think there is any ambiguity.

BRB p.31 wrote:
Once a unit has regrouped, it cannot otherwise move (so cannot
Run in the Shooting phase or charge in the Assault phase).

The text in brackets is just some examples.

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Two questions from tonight's game   Sat Mar 23 2013, 11:16

It's not examples or it would say so, like eg or etc... It specifies run and charge.

I get what you mean(and agree) but playing devils advocate I can see it being argued the other way

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Nappen
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PostSubject: Re: Two questions from tonight's game   Sat Mar 23 2013, 13:29

Reavers can't turboboost as Mush adequately explained.

Page 124 says during night fighting cannot target a unit more thn 36 inches away. No ambiguity there (for once Smile ). If a target is more than 36 inches away then they cannot be targeted.
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