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 Wracks Vs. Grotesques

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GKP
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PostSubject: Wracks Vs. Grotesques   Sun Mar 17 2013, 05:15

Is there any reason to take Wracks over Grots? It seems to me that the only buff the Wracks have versus the Grots is that they are scoring with a Haemonculus, and even then, it seems like Grots are better.
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Mngwa
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PostSubject: Re: Wracks Vs. Grotesques   Sun Mar 17 2013, 08:00

Well, wracks are very cheap (same as wyches), and have poisoned weapons. + they dont need an IC with them for safety Wink
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sgb69
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PostSubject: Re: Wracks Vs. Grotesques   Sun Mar 17 2013, 08:41

Generally it's a price point and scoring issue.

Wracks are pretty great at killing Marines and taking an objective. Groetesques tend more to be a great mid field bullet sponge, in my opinion.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Wracks Vs. Grotesques   Sun Mar 17 2013, 18:58

Also they serve fairly different roles in addition to the dramatically different cost to field, and how to field them.

I mean, as far as 'why' to field Wracks over Grots, even off the top of my head I come up with;

- Don't have a spare HQ to escort the unit.
- Want to field a Venom
- Want to use Liquifier drive bys.
- Want a scoring unit
- Want a cheap objective sitter
- Desire 10 Wracks for less than 4 Grots
- Want to field a unit for a cheap pain token for an IC to take with him to a different unit.
- Have other goals for your Elite slots (Trueborn, Incubi, ect)

I think the above about covers it, and there are a lot of very solid and a few semi-reasonable options there to avoid Grots and take Wracks. Really, the *only* thing Grots are better than Wracks at is in absorbing damage and serving as a pseudo death star for some HQ - but they're also obligated to be fielded with an HQ. They are very good at absorbing damage and being an assault threat though - it's what they do.

Beyond that, however, there is really nothing Grots can do that Wracks don't do as well/better and for less cost investment.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Wracks Vs. Grotesques   Sun Mar 17 2013, 19:13

Hurm, looked at my 4 Grots vs. 10 Wracks thing and decided to just toss up some mathammer out of boredom on it. I'm going to do it as 9 Wracks with a presumed HQ, just as the Grots will have a presumed HQ. Let's see;

9 Wracks vs. 10 MEQ

Overwatch with bolters and no cover will generate 3 hits and 1.66 wounds - 1.11 after FNP, so likely 8 Wracks left alive.
24 attacks on the charge = 12 hits, 6 wounds, 2 dead Marines after saves.
10 attacks from the MEQs will do 5 hits, 2.5 wounds, 1.66 dead Wracks after saves.

So it is down to 2.77 dead Wracks and 2 dead marines after the charge - numbers would adjust for the HQ.


4 Grots vs. 10 MEQ

Overwatch with bolters and no cover will generate 3 hits and 1.11 wounds - 0.74 after FNP, so probably a wound to 1 Grot.
16 attacks on charge = 8 hits, 6 wounds via posion w. re-roll, 2 dead Marines after saves.
10 attacks from the MEQs will do 5 hits, 1.66 wounds, .55 wounds after saves.

So 1.29 wounds to the Grots and 2 dead Marines, adjusted for HQ, yadda, yadda.

=============================================================

Both units benefit from HQs (the Wracks will benefit 'more' from a Haem than the Grots since that will push them into Furious Charge range and allow them a re-roll as well (pushing their kill total to 3 Marines on the charge)

Interestingly both sides will kill just about as well on the charge - the Grots just tend to be more survivable and also cost more. Also, in the drawn out fight the Grots will probably win while the Wracks will not, but it's interesting to see that the damage output is functionally identical and the difference clearly comes in the absorption of the damage. Also, though it makes sense, it is interesting to note that the Wracks benefit more from a Haem than the Grots do - not that I think many people fielding Grot bombs don't use an Archon/Succubus as the HQ, but it's neat to be aware of those numbers on a conscious level.

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xzandrate
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PostSubject: Re: Wracks Vs. Grotesques   Mon Mar 18 2013, 13:18

Something seems off, the shooting seems correct (though it's 3.33 hits, and that seems to be what you used to generate the wounds)

The assault seems way off.

The wracks number seems close, but you forgot they actually get the T-shirt save, so we should end up with wounds * armour save * FNP
2.5 *(5/6)*(4/6) = 1.39

Grots final wounds seems way too low. 1.66 wounds to .55 after saves would mean a 3+ save, probably just a flub on the save formula. I think we should end up with the following
1.66*(5/6)*(4/6) = .92 wounds

BTW: Grots won't have poison, so won't get re-rolls normally. An aberation with scissorhands would, but that increases the attacks. Personally it's one of the reasons I always take one. 7 poison attacks on the charge are great, and can soak up challenges quite nicely.
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Crazy_Ivan
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PostSubject: Re: Wracks Vs. Grotesques   Mon Mar 18 2013, 15:15

I prefer the flesh gauntlet on the aberration, 6 attacks on the charge and instant death will most of the time wound on a 3 plus, plus re-rolls to wound Smile.
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Irakunar Thrax
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PostSubject: Re: Wracks Vs. Grotesques   Mon Mar 18 2013, 19:54

Flesh gauntlet for the win :-) i really do like the concept of the grots, and therefore have taken the time to convert my own.
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