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 Drazhar vs Karandras

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shadowseercB
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PostSubject: Drazhar vs Karandras   Tue Feb 12 2013, 17:38

In a dual, 1v1, without the charge attack bonus. Which HQ do you think is better? I say Drazhar, his abilities are superior. And hes much cooler too Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar vs Karandras   Tue Feb 12 2013, 18:53

kharandras should win. 6 S8 attacks clearly beats 4 S7 attacks...

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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar vs Karandras   Tue Feb 12 2013, 20:46

but.. but.. he goes at initiative 1.

Drazhar gets prefered enemy against him, Reposte, and onslaught. Thats a ton of attacks and at AP2 they will ignore his armor saves.
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar vs Karandras   Tue Feb 12 2013, 21:01

Everytime I test the rolls he dies before he can get to his powerfist.

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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar vs Karandras   Tue Feb 12 2013, 21:11

Draz would probably win, as he ignores Karandras's armour, has high enough strenght (with the clasped demiklaive) to wound him on 2+ (and he gets preferred enemy, so he rerolls 1s to hit and wound) and he goes first. If they'd hit at the same time (say, Karandras is hiding in cover and Drazhar didn't bering along an Archon with PLG), then it'd be about 50/50, with a high chanse of both dying. Then Drazhar's preferred enemy might be balanced out by Karandras' larger amount of attacks. Both would hit on 4+ and wound on 2+ with no saves, tho Drazhar still gets rerolls to wound.

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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar vs Karandras   Wed Feb 13 2013, 01:39

HOW DOES DRAZHAR NOT HAVE GRENADES?

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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar vs Karandras   Wed Feb 13 2013, 02:17

@CaptainBalroga wrote:
HOW DOES DRAZHAR NOT HAVE GRENADES?

Lelith stole them to drop down the Terminators' underwear...
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar vs Karandras   Wed Feb 13 2013, 02:46

It makes me cry when I think if it and everytime I spend 25 points on phantasm grenade launchers when I field incubi with my archon.

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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar vs Karandras   Wed Feb 13 2013, 12:48

@Balisong wrote:
@CaptainBalroga wrote:
HOW DOES DRAZHAR NOT HAVE GRENADES?

Lelith stole them to drop down the Terminators' underwear...

...WHAT?
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar vs Karandras   Wed Feb 13 2013, 13:03

It's a reference to her armour ignoring grenades, as here "penetrating blade" special rule says all her attacks ignore armour, and doesn't specify assault or shooting attacks. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar vs Karandras   Wed Feb 13 2013, 13:11

Aha... right. Hahahaha...
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar vs Karandras   Thu Feb 14 2013, 14:52

well lets look at the math then.

Draz hits first with 4 attacks, he is ofc going to clasp his demi-klaives, so he does 2.105 wounds (even with prefered enemy)

Kharandras now hits. he does 2.499 wounds on average.

Now you see they both dont kill each other off the bat. That means Draz most likely wins next round. I guess itll all come down to how you roll. If Draz gets 2 6s for onslaught, he should win, yet Kharandras might hit more than average, and draz might go down to a powerfist. Its all really close tbh

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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar vs Karandras   Sat Feb 16 2013, 16:44

I sat at home and rolled against my self. Every time the fight never got to Karandras turn. It was 9/10 wins for Drazhar. I also did clasped demi and got the same results too. The math shows more in Drazhars favor also though his strength will always be lower than karandras's, he always has more attacks.

The average wounds Drazhar does is 3 btw. Its funny how that works out.

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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar vs Karandras   Sun Feb 17 2013, 01:33

Karandras has 6 attacks base, draz needs to go unclasped to match that. On top of that, karandras reliably does just under 3wounds with his fist. Essentially, unless Draz takes him out in 1 turn, Karandras will win.

Unclasped I get just on 2 unsaved wounds. Clasped is about the same... Onslaught changes this but still... This should go to Karandras is most cases

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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar vs Karandras   Sun Feb 17 2013, 02:41

roll the dice and see. Consider onslaught, and murderous assault. Use it unclasped. Roll and see, he gets more attacks for every roll of 6 and he has prefered enemy so he gets to re roll on hits and wounds. Statistically he ends up having more attacks.

I have argued this many times to craftworld eldar players recently, we roll off over and over again and it works out everytime drazhar victor.
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar vs Karandras   Sun Feb 17 2013, 09:12

Reroll 1's to hit and wound... Not all misses so its not as good as you think.

If your rerolling everything then there is the issue

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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar vs Karandras   Sun Feb 17 2013, 21:51

Im not. Its not what i think its what has been proven. Roll the dice and you will see Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar vs Karandras   Sun Feb 17 2013, 23:59

You can't just say roll the dice. Luck plays to much of a factor. Dice are hot? Draz wins. Dice are cold? He dies without landing a blow.

This is one of the few times math hammer is actually a useful tool. It's as close to "proof" as you can get.

Statistically (rather than anecdotally) Draz will not kill Karandras be for he can swing and then Karandras will do more damage back.

Giving Draz furious charge from a couple of pain tokens changes things.

They are surprisingly even all things said

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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar vs Karandras   Tue Feb 19 2013, 16:03

@shadowseercB wrote:
Im not. Its not what i think its what has been proven. Roll the dice and you will see Smile

and if I roll enough my gretchin will kill a terminator 9/10 times Razz

rolling dice is all about luck. When you roll something out, its all random. We can have almost anything happen (well... a lasgun cant take out a landraider... but you know what I mean) Rolling dice introduces this random factor, and you have to roll the scenerio out alot of times to even get close to an answer (heck, if you just roll a D6 and check for high/low 100 times, its rare that you will end up with 50% low and 50% high) Mathhammer is a good medium here, as it gives us the average of what should happen. Statistically Draz does 2 wounds. The problem here is onslaught (we can calculate prefered enemy re-rolls of 1s) Onslaught is the deciding factor. If draz gets an extra attack, and if that hits, he would most likely win. Sadly if he doesnt roll a 6, Kharandras as per mathhammer should crush Draz's skull in.

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