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 2 quick rule questions

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Druchii
Hellion


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Join date : 2012-09-12

PostSubject: 2 quick rule questions   Fri Jan 04 2013, 11:38

Hi!

During the holidays 2 friends had a friendly 2k game (flamer,screamer,weaver combo vs Death guard). and a bunch of questions came up. One is already posted up here but here's two more ^^

1. Can a unit shot through a cc-fight at a different unit? The Daemon player insisted that this was ok as long as the unit had line of sight. I get this if let's say a flyer can draw a TLOS over the engaged units. But in this scenario the TLOS was not drawn over the close combat but through it, or under it if you want to be picky (TLOS was drawn under the screamers)... still ok (??)
Me and my other friend is known to mix the different editions together and when I couldn't find anything about it in the rule book we let it be. But it smells fishy still =P

2. The next question is about focused fire and "look out sir".
In this scenario the Death guard player had Typhus in a blob of zombies. The thing was however that 20 or so of the zombies was in area terrain. Typhus and a handful of zombies was out in the open. The focused fire was no biggie (the opponent declared fire on Typhus and the few zombies in the open) but when it was time to allocate the look out sir rolls a question rouse. Can look out sir rolls be made by zombies in the area terrain? Nothing says otherwise but it feels kinda counterproductive against the focused fire rule?

//Druchii
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Dra'al Nacht
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Location : Perth, Australia

PostSubject: Re: 2 quick rule questions   Fri Jan 04 2013, 12:35

I can't see any restrictions regarding shooting through an assault. If you can see it, you can shoot it. As for the second question, Focus Fire wounds must be allocated to the same, or worse cover save than the stated cover save. A successful Look out Sir roll merely re-allocates the wound so I would say that the Focus Fire restrictions still apply.
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
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PostSubject: Re: 2 quick rule questions   Fri Jan 04 2013, 12:49

@Druchii wrote:
1. Can a unit shot through a cc-fight at a different unit?

Yes. As long as they have LOS. Page 18 "Intervening Models" makes no exception for models in close combat.

Quote :
2. Can look out sir rolls be made by zombies in the area terrain?i

Page 18 again.

Quote :
If you choose to Focus Fire, choose a cover save value. This can be between 2+ and 5+. Your opponent can only allocate Wounds to models with a cover save equal to or worse (i.e a higher value) than the value stated.

Look Out Sir rolls are made when wounds are allocated. So if you allocate to a model in the open you can Look Out Sir that wound and resolve it on a model in cover but remember that LOS wounds now have to go to the nearest model to the character. However, the cover save rules say:

Quote :
Determining Cover Saves
If, when you come to allocate a Wound, the target model's body (as defined on page Cool is at least 25% obscured from the point of view of at least one firer, Wounds allocated to that model recelve a cover save.

You do not allocate wounds to subsequent models when LoS is used. You resolve the wounds against them. The allocation step has already been passed as they were allocated to the initial target. If you did allocate, you could not allocate wounds to models with a better cover save than the ones you focus on. So we either have a situation where you can focus fire a character and he cannot LoS the shots (because you cannot allocate to models with a better cover save) or you can focus fire a character and he can LoS the shots but the new targets cannot benefit from a cover save (as the wounds were not allocated to that model and cover saves are determined, model by model, when wounds are allocated).

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Druchii
Hellion


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Join date : 2012-09-12

PostSubject: Re: 2 quick rule questions   Fri Jan 04 2013, 14:41

Thanks for the quick replies =)
The answer to question no 1 was as I suspected. It's not the first time me and my mate gets things mixed up... Sometimes it feels more like we play 5½ edition and not 6th =P
It's a good thing that question no 2 was solved also. Even though it ended up adding into my problems. =)
The zombie blob with an Termie IC is not very killy, but soaks up insanely amounts of shots. A good thing our beloved kin can dish out plenty of poison love =)

//Druchii
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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: 2 quick rule questions   Fri Jan 04 2013, 15:30

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Quote :
If you choose to Focus Fire, choose a cover save value. This can be between 2+ and 5+. Your opponent can only allocate Wounds to models with a cover save equal to or worse (i.e a higher value) than the value stated.

Look Out Sir rolls are made when wounds are allocated. So if you allocate to a model in the open you can Look Out Sir that wound and resolve it on a model in cover but remember that LOS wounds now have to go to the nearest model to the character. However, the cover save rules say:

Quote :
Determining Cover Saves
If, when you come to allocate a Wound, the target model's body (as defined on page Cool is at least 25% obscured from the point of view of at least one firer, Wounds allocated to that model recelve a cover save.

You do not allocate wounds to subsequent models when LoS is used. You resolve the wounds against them. The allocation step has already been passed as they were allocated to the initial target. If you did allocate, you could not allocate wounds to models with a better cover save than the ones you focus on. So we either have a situation where you can focus fire a character and he cannot LoS the shots (because you cannot allocate to models with a better cover save) or you can focus fire a character and he can LoS the shots but the new targets cannot benefit from a cover save (as the wounds were not allocated to that model and cover saves are determined, model by model, when wounds are allocated).

Personally I would see it as the later. As LoS to me would trump the rule about allocating a wound to a better cover save, but I dont think you would be able to make use of that better cover save, as per the rule for focus fire.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: 2 quick rule questions   Fri Jan 04 2013, 15:39

That's what I would lean towards too. It also seems to fit as I can picture a brave soldier leaping out from behind a ruined wall to protect his beloved leader.

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Dra'al Nacht
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PostSubject: Re: 2 quick rule questions   Sat Jan 05 2013, 03:40

Or being dragged out of cover as a meat shield.
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