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Uberwilhelm
Slave


Posts : 10
Join date : 2012-12-05

PostSubject: Stupid Space Marines   Wed Dec 26 2012, 20:12

Howdy all.

Last weekend I was in a 2000 point battle against the Space Marines who thoroughly whooped my butt. Here is the basic break down (best I can remember)

Marines
1 x Whirlwind
3 x Lemon Russ
1 x 5 man bike squad
1 x juggernaut
3 x 10 man squads

DE
10 witches on a raider w/Dis
9 Incubi and Drazr on a raider w/Dis
1 Raveger with 3 x DLs
1 Ravager with 3x Dis
1 Talos (in reserve)
6 reavers
5 Hellions
2 x 20 man squads with splinter cannons

1St Round
He won int and in the first round took out both Ravagers, 4 Reavers, and a handful of troops.

I killed one bike and one marine

2nd round
He took out remaining Reavers, all hellions, and caused one squad to break and run. Game is basically over.

That said, is there any way possible to beat Marines with DE? His heavy weapons and whirlwind just chewed the hell out of me. Most of his bolters were Str 5 so he wounded on 2+ and I missed almost all saves. My plan was to pin stuff down with the Ravagers, Reavers, and troops while the witches, incubi, talos and hellions got into H2H but I never got even close before getting pummeled. Any ideas?
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alexwellace
Kabalite Warrior


Posts : 133
Join date : 2012-02-12

PostSubject: Re: Stupid Space Marines   Wed Dec 26 2012, 20:29

Marines are not too hard to beat with dark eldar and id say they are the easiest of the power armoured crew. First off lets look at your list. I see 2 units of 20 warriors and i dont see what they are trying to accomplish, walking across the bored would be suicide and you dont need that many bodies to hold your home obj. If you intend to keep a 20 man squad id surgest keeping only 1, buy an AG defense line for that 4 cover and quad gun and keep that obj, but i find this to static. Id also surgest eldar allies for eldrad to walk up with that 20 man squad to make it a really good, overwatching at BS,hit re-rolling, 4++,FNP, forcing saves re-rolling unit that isnt a slouch in combat either and having a unit of rangers/pathfinders to do obj grapping if needed.

Id never use a dissie ravager, i love my lances to much but i carnt say dont use it, i can just say your lacking Long range av for a 2k match. Im also assuming you have a haemon as a HQ? if not i would recommend him with a LG and WWP and to drop a wych for him, FNP beats a single wound everytime and dropping that WWP first turn means that talos is a problem very soon, id even recommend a heat lance on him cause he will be so close. id drop the hellions to fit these in, 5 hellions wont win anything bar guardsmen and thats forgetting overwatch.

The drazr deathstar looks awesome but a single battle cannon shot will ruin your day, make sure that shot doesnt go off. id reccomend losing an incubi or 2 or even 3, this unit is killy enough and the extra wounds wont matter if you make it into combat nore will they save you from shooting. It sounds like your using reavers as assult troops, they are primarily not assult and definatly wont beat marines, id say give them 2 HL and draw some fire or get ignored and get some melta shots at his Lemons.

If models are a problem ask to proxy, but if not then im not sure, just switch dissies for lances and take down russ's and spread out for those whirlwind shots.

Hope i helped Smile *sorry for wall*
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THeWigglyNoodle
Hellion
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Join date : 2012-10-23

PostSubject: Re: Stupid Space Marines   Wed Dec 26 2012, 20:33

You need more anti tank one ravager with DLs isn't enough at least 3 ravagers DLs
Those witches will only die so strap some haywire nades run them toward the nearest tank (in a transport of course) and make it mean something . Lose the 2 big warrior squads and try 5 man in venoms in other words shoot stuff ,lose most of your cc units and just blast him away
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alexwellace
Kabalite Warrior


Posts : 133
Join date : 2012-02-12

PostSubject: Re: Stupid Space Marines   Wed Dec 26 2012, 20:43

And be another boring dark eldar MSU shooty army??? Very Happy

NEVER! DArk eldar dont have to be played so 1 dimensionally, i have been thriving with my stupid luck in 6ed where i have yet to lose a match with an army with only 1 raider and 1 venom!!!! I like the idea of a Drazr deathstar and its obvious thats what his army is about, with everything else just added up to 2k, but its all about drazr. i can tell, it looks a lot like my first armylist Smile
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Uberwilhelm
Slave


Posts : 10
Join date : 2012-12-05

PostSubject: Re: Stupid Space Marines   Wed Dec 26 2012, 20:45

@THeWigglyNoodle wrote:
You need more anti tank one ravager with DLs isn't enough at least 3 ravagers DLs
Those witches will only die so strap some haywire nades run them toward the nearest tank (in a transport of course) and make it mean something . Lose the 2 big warrior squads and try 5 man in venoms in other words shoot stuff ,lose most of your cc units and just blast him away

That was part of the plan. The witches had haywire grenades and were heading towards the whirwind and one lemond russ. Never got close though.
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Uberwilhelm
Slave


Posts : 10
Join date : 2012-12-05

PostSubject: Re: Stupid Space Marines   Wed Dec 26 2012, 20:50

@alexwellace wrote:
Marines are not too hard to beat with dark eldar and id say they are the easiest of the power armoured crew. First off lets look at your list. I see 2 units of 20 warriors and i dont see what they are trying to accomplish, walking across the bored would be suicide and you dont need that many bodies to hold your home obj. If you intend to keep a 20 man squad id surgest keeping only 1, buy an AG defense line for that 4 cover and quad gun and keep that obj, but i find this to static. Id also surgest eldar allies for eldrad to walk up with that 20 man squad to make it a really good, overwatching at BS,hit re-rolling, 4++,FNP, forcing saves re-rolling unit that isnt a slouch in combat either and having a unit of rangers/pathfinders to do obj grapping if needed.

Id never use a dissie ravager, i love my lances to much but i carnt say dont use it, i can just say your lacking Long range av for a 2k match. Im also assuming you have a haemon as a HQ? if not i would recommend him with a LG and WWP and to drop a wych for him, FNP beats a single wound everytime and dropping that WWP first turn means that talos is a problem very soon, id even recommend a heat lance on him cause he will be so close. id drop the hellions to fit these in, 5 hellions wont win anything bar guardsmen and thats forgetting overwatch.

The drazr deathstar looks awesome but a single battle cannon shot will ruin your day, make sure that shot doesnt go off. id reccomend losing an incubi or 2 or even 3, this unit is killy enough and the extra wounds wont matter if you make it into combat nore will they save you from shooting. It sounds like your using reavers as assult troops, they are primarily not assult and definatly wont beat marines, id say give them 2 HL and draw some fire or get ignored and get some melta shots at his Lemons.

If models are a problem ask to proxy, but if not then im not sure, just switch dissies for lances and take down russ's and spread out for those whirlwind shots.

Hope i helped Smile *sorry for wall*

Knowing how my friend likes to hunker in, my plan was to advance the 2 x 20 man units and just blast away hopefully drawing enough attention to allow the raider units to get into H2H. Drazr had a webway portal and as soon as they disembarked, was going to drop it allowing the talos to pop into the backfield for major damage. The witches had haywire grenades so they were heading for the whirlwind and one lemond russ. I know part of my defeat was that my dice were PISSED at me. I have never rolled so many 1s and 2s in my life. I couldn't make a save or hit for anything.
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alexwellace
Kabalite Warrior


Posts : 133
Join date : 2012-02-12

PostSubject: Re: Stupid Space Marines   Wed Dec 26 2012, 20:58

Draz is a special character and carnt buy a WWP. By lemons do you mean predators? otherwise he is cheating as they are a IG unit unless they are allies, underwhich he has to have a IG HQ and troops. Also, whats a Juggernaught?

20 t3 5+ save isnt to hard to get rid of, at all and they will evaporate under whirlwind fire. Turbo boast wych raider behind the lemons so he either has to turn around and expose his back armour to you to kill the raider or only hit it with marines and you have a 4+ cover save. If you live, heck even if you didnt but you survived the explosion have the wyches multicharge all of the russ's and at least 2, if not 3 will die at once.

Id say when you play your games you should play in your local games store for a bit so they can help you learn all the rules for the new edition cause it sounds like you havn't read the new rules.
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Uberwilhelm
Slave


Posts : 10
Join date : 2012-12-05

PostSubject: Re: Stupid Space Marines   Wed Dec 26 2012, 21:30

@alexwellace wrote:
Draz is a special character and carnt buy a WWP. By lemons do you mean predators? otherwise he is cheating as they are a IG unit unless they are allies, underwhich he has to have a IG HQ and troops. Also, whats a Juggernaught?

20 t3 5+ save isnt to hard to get rid of, at all and they will evaporate under whirlwind fire. Turbo boast wych raider behind the lemons so he either has to turn around and expose his back armour to you to kill the raider or only hit it with marines and you have a 4+ cover save. If you live, heck even if you didnt but you survived the explosion have the wyches multicharge all of the russ's and at least 2, if not 3 will die at once.

Id say when you play your games you should play in your local games store for a bit so they can help you learn all the rules for the new edition cause it sounds like you havn't read the new rules.

Yeah that is what happens when I try to post stuff from memory. I meant predators and Dreadnaught. Where do you see the rule that Draz can't use a WWP? I looked and didn't see any restrictions on who can use it.
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alexwellace
Kabalite Warrior


Posts : 133
Join date : 2012-02-12

PostSubject: Re: Stupid Space Marines   Wed Dec 26 2012, 21:37

He can use it, he just carnt buy it because he simply doesnt have the option, look at his profile on the points page and see where it says can take arcane wargear, parden? It doesnt. Its like saying every sargent can get a huskblade.

But i do think the WWP is a part of your list and a good part, so thats why i say you need a haem, cheapest way for a WWP and FNP bonus and a liquifier is just tasty
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Khorndog
Slave


Posts : 16
Join date : 2012-12-24

PostSubject: Re: Stupid Space Marines   Wed Dec 26 2012, 21:45

Like everyone else has said, Dark Eldar can very easily defeat marines- but not without a coherent army! 5 hellions are next to useless, and with that little anti-vehicle mech armies are always going to be a hassle.

Try dropping the hellions, the talos, and one of the 20 man warrior squads in favor of something more useful. In my experience with this type of list, 3 ravagers with lances are decent anti tank, and a handful of raiders full of wyches with haywire can make decent combat units, as well as provide additional anti tank if needed.

My Drazhar list looks something like:
-Drazhar
-9 incubi, raider
-4 trueborn, blasters, venom
-4 trueborn, blasters, venom
-10 wyches, 2 hydra gauntlets, haywire, raider
-10 wyches, 2 hydra gauntlets, haywire, raider
-10 wyches, 2 hydra gauntlets, haywire, raider
-3 ravagers, dark lances

Very mobile, lots of targets, but more important is the redundancy built into the list. If one of my wyches go down, or even two, I'm still getting that third unit in unscathed. Likewise, if one of my blaster units go down, I've still got anti tank that my opponent has to worry about. Same thing with the ravagers. In your current list, if he disables your lances, he can pretty much do what he wants as you have no other way of taking down vehicles.

I hope that helps, cheers!
Nick
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Uberwilhelm
Slave


Posts : 10
Join date : 2012-12-05

PostSubject: Re: Stupid Space Marines   Thu Dec 27 2012, 14:39

@Khorndog wrote:
Like everyone else has said, Dark Eldar can very easily defeat marines- but not without a coherent army! 5 hellions are next to useless, and with that little anti-vehicle mech armies are always going to be a hassle.

Try dropping the hellions, the talos, and one of the 20 man warrior squads in favor of something more useful. In my experience with this type of list, 3 ravagers with lances are decent anti tank, and a handful of raiders full of wyches with haywire can make decent combat units, as well as provide additional anti tank if needed.

My Drazhar list looks something like:
-Drazhar
-9 incubi, raider
-4 trueborn, blasters, venom
-4 trueborn, blasters, venom
-10 wyches, 2 hydra gauntlets, haywire, raider
-10 wyches, 2 hydra gauntlets, haywire, raider
-10 wyches, 2 hydra gauntlets, haywire, raider
-3 ravagers, dark lances

Very mobile, lots of targets, but more important is the redundancy built into the list. If one of my wyches go down, or even two, I'm still getting that third unit in unscathed. Likewise, if one of my blaster units go down, I've still got anti tank that my opponent has to worry about. Same thing with the ravagers. In your current list, if he disables your lances, he can pretty much do what he wants as you have no other way of taking down vehicles.

I hope that helps, cheers!
Nick

Interesting idea. Right now I am limited by my army, but I feel a purchase or two coming up.
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THeWigglyNoodle
Hellion
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Join date : 2012-10-23

PostSubject: Re: Stupid Space Marines   Fri Dec 28 2012, 09:19

I would recomend putting wyches with haywire in venom just because there smaller and easier to hide and that venom cannon softens whatever your assaulting
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