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 5 man Venom, is the blaster worth it?

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pantofful
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PostSubject: 5 man Venom, is the blaster worth it?   Tue Dec 11 2012, 16:47

Okay, so I'm working my way up to 2k as I build my dark eldar forces, and I find I like the idea of the 5 man trooper units in venoms that many here espouse, and in the 1500pt list I'm going with right now I have 4 of these.

That said, I've also noticed that many people pay the 15pts to put a blaster in these units, and am wondering what people's opinions are on this... it seems that it has the ability to "waste" much of the troops splinter fire if you're using the blaster to AT, and if not, you're paying enough points to put a small Trueborn Splinter Cannon squad on foot on the board instead.

So what's better:

4 Str8 AP2 shots at 18" range, or
16-20 poison shots at 24-36" range?
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Murkglow
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PostSubject: Re: 5 man Venom, is the blaster worth it?   Tue Dec 11 2012, 17:04

Wait, are you talking about troops (ie Warriors) or Trueborn? From most of your example it seems like the former but at the end you're saying 4 blaster shots vs multiple splinter cannon shots which makes me think Trueborn.

Regarding Warriors: True you are wasting the rest of the squads splinter rifles if you shoot a tank with the Blaster (not the venom though, you can fire it at something else, including any passengers that might have been in the tank) but sometimes you just need to pop that tank regardless and the blaster gives you that option. Likewise the Blaster gives you a powerful AP2 shot which is useful vs both MEQ and TEQ. Finally if you're in range to rapid fire your rifles you're in range to use the blasters so its range isn't the worst possible thing (unlike say the Blast Pistol which is even shorter range). All that said you don't have to put the blaster in the squad at all. It's perfectly viable not to, especially if you're staying farther way to make hurting your venom more difficult.

Regarding Trueborn: 4 Blaster shots is some of the best anti-tank we have. Again the Venom isn't wasted because you can shoot at a different squad with it and 4 Blaster shots is even more powerful then 3 Dark Lance shots from a ravager (though shorter range obviously). It also again makes them great vs MEQ and TEQ, since losing 4 marines/termies in one volley is a huge chunk of the squad most likely. Of course Splinter Cannon/Carbine armed Trueborn are perfectly viable too but Blaster armed has its place.


Last edited by Murkglow on Tue Dec 11 2012, 17:06; edited 1 time in total
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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: 5 man Venom, is the blaster worth it?   Tue Dec 11 2012, 17:05

the purpose is duality in the form of your vehicle and unit. You take a venom for the awesome AI fire, the blaster gives you something to use against Tanks (dont listen to the internet... tanks are a strong presence in 6th). Also remember that your unit and tank dont have to shoot at the same unit.

Also compare this. 2 shots from a splinter rifle compared to 1 shot from a blaster??? you will find that the blast has a better wound average compared to the splinter shots you will be missing. Also add in the fact that you can do some nasty things with the wound allocation pool (like making sure that blaster shot goes on something important) and the ability for it to ID T4 models... you have alot for a small price tag of 15 points.

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pantofful
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PostSubject: Re: 5 man Venom, is the blaster worth it?   Tue Dec 11 2012, 17:24

Sorry, should have been more explicit: I'm using warriors as the example.

The 4 blasters was the total # of blasters that I could take across the 4 units, vs. all 5 warriors having rifles, and getting an additional 3 man unit of Trueborn with 2 splinter cannons.
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Seshiru
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PostSubject: Re: 5 man Venom, is the blaster worth it?   Tue Dec 11 2012, 17:28

Cutting the blasters off your 4 units of warriors listed would save you 60 points, but take 4 Dark Light shots out of your list.

Play against something like GK razorback spam where every Dark Light shot is worth it's weight in gold and you'll deeply regret it.

Even though you'll often need to move the venom 12" forcing you to only snap shot the blaster, if they have flyers in play it's the perfect thing to snap shot at

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pantofful
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PostSubject: Re: 5 man Venom, is the blaster worth it?   Tue Dec 11 2012, 17:52

Cool, thanks for the insight. I'll go with the blasters, as it seems the pain felt from the loss of some splinter fire isn't as great as the pain of running out of darklights.

That said, in our group right now, we have no SM players, but tau, necron, orks, and IG are aplenty.
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foeofnight
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PostSubject: Re: 5 man Venom, is the blaster worth it?   Tue Dec 11 2012, 18:12

This is an interesting topic to me as I have recently stayed away from the standard 5man w/blaster in venom squads.
If I need to save a few points the first thing I drop is a blaster.

There are a lot of what ifs though, when thinking about this...

What is your army composition?
What are the standard lists in your area?
Are you heavy on AI and need more AT?

For me I started seeing alot of lists with little to no tanks in them so I made a change to my army list. I use my fast attack slots and heavies as AT (reavers and beasts are great) and also if the points are there take the blasters.
However my lists that have been doing well for me have 3 Splinter-cannon Trueborn in venoms (its like having 6 venoms on the table) and then have a couple of foot squads with splinter cannons to help take center field behind my beast back and talos.

So in the end, you can run without the blasters yes. If you need to save a few points you may consider dropping from there. If you need the anti tank because you are facing Mech Guard or Razor-spam then load up every darklight weapon you have as your splinter-cannons have no use against the armor and only become usefull once you crack open the tin cans. Just if you do decide to play a game and test out the no blaster route, make sure you have a back up for killing tanks.
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Darklight
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PostSubject: Re: 5 man Venom, is the blaster worth it?   Wed Dec 12 2012, 06:57

Seshiru wrote:
Cutting the blasters off your 4 units of warriors listed would save you 60 points, but take 4 Dark Light shots out of your list.

Play against something like GK razorback spam where every Dark Light shot is worth it's weight in gold and you'll deeply regret it.

Even though you'll often need to move the venom 12" forcing you to only snap shot the blaster, if they have flyers in play it's the perfect thing to snap shot at

Excellent written.

And that is the reason we go 5man with blaster.

Myself I play mostly "non comepetitive" games against none mech teams, but I play with blaster either way. It kills better (math hammer) and if you go to a turnement and meet Razorback spam or any other mech list, well then you are frak without it.

Sure as I play Demons and Tyranids in 90% of my non competitive matches I could do without it, but I feel I would give myself a disatvantage in a turnement since I was used to using a optimal list against those oponenets, and eeven tho we should handle them, you might frak it real bad up since you now are playing diffrent aganist them.

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Deamon
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PostSubject: Re: 5 man Venom, is the blaster worth it?   Wed Dec 12 2012, 11:52

I personally stopped using blasters in my 5 men squads. I usually want to keep my venom as far as possible so the blaster is never in range. And my warriors just die when they're out of the venom so I decided to save to points to put them somewhere I'll use them.
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