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average joe
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PostSubject: Precision shots and overall strategy   Thu Dec 06 2012, 14:48

How much do you attempt to incorporate precision shots into your overall strategy?

With the few 6th ed games that I have under my belt it hasn't played much of a factor yet, but it seems a small investment could create some interesting happenings. How much effort should a DE player put into achieving any of the oddball effects of a sniper/precision shot kill.

Would anyone think it worthwile to field a few min units of wracks with a hexrifle equiped acothyst for sniping duties?

I was thinking a few of these units fielded as troops might be entertaining. Perhaps use them to claim objectives close to my deployment zone and support my forward units with an odd sniper kill. At 215 points three squads and a haemie are pretty cheap as these things go. The haemie of course would bolster some other unit. The wracks might get me a couple of useful pins and kills in the course of a game. And they would also open up slots for three more venoms for those must have splinter cannons.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Thu Dec 06 2012, 19:46

I don't really think you can incorporate a 1 in 6 chance of one model allocating a wound to a model of your choice into your strategy. If it happens, great. But I don't think you can build a strategy around it.

If IC's were effected by it then it might be more useful but with a 2+ LOS roll they are basically immune.

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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Thu Dec 06 2012, 21:19

Yeah as Count stated Look Out Sir overrides Precision Shot somewhat. I mean you could allocate the wound onto a Special Weapons guy or something like that, as long as its not the sergant.

Beastmasters are Characters, so when you shoot their Splinter Pods, and when in assault, don't forget to pick out any 6's

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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Thu Dec 06 2012, 23:24

Indeed the 6's needed to hit and the 2/4+ LOS save make it highly unlikely to snipe a character. So precision shots is pretty much limited to making it a habit to roll character shooting separately to identify the odd 6 to place on special/heavy weapon models.

In a game played against my son my succubus who managed to LOS all but one bolter shot from a nearly full strength marine squad. A combination of poor movement on my part and some good movement on his put the succubus closest to his unit. He shot the unit out from under me, but a wych and the succubus did make it into an assault.

What about the pinning effect of sniper weapons? Does this have a place in overall strategy? Or do we just rely on weight of fire to overwhelm a target unit?
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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Fri Dec 07 2012, 16:05

I like the idea of pinning, but I can't help but think we are poorly equipped for it. Necrotoxin missiles maybe, or allied rangers; perhaps with a torment launcher vehicle nearby?

Unfortunately a single hexrifle just doesn't have enough chance of actually forcing a check (1/3 on a 5+ save model in the open, 4/27 against a MEQ in cover!) to base grand plans around it.

And even after the check is forced, probably at Ld 7+ even with a torment launcher, that's on the wrong side of 50%.

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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Sat Dec 08 2012, 01:19

Not so much an overall strategy, but I do like to run a haemunculi with a hex rifle. The first few times I took him he did very little. But in a game where I was cursing him for spending the first 3 turns doing nothing, even telling a friend who was watching the game that I would never take a hex rifle again. Then, in the very next turn, taking a shot at space marine squad with a Captain in it, I rolled two 6's in a row and watched as my opponent failed his Iron Halo save and then fail his characteristic test. I immediately recanted my statement about how hex rifles suck.

But beyond the odd rending shot and occasional dead squad leader, he hasn't done much. Still, his primary role is to give my incubi and archon a pain token at the beginning of the game, so anything else he does is gravy.

I don't think I would take hex rifles on wrack squads as that's not really the roll I see them performing. A blaster on an archon might be useful, but you are giving up a CCW attach for that and my Archon is all about hand to hand.

So to make a long answer short; no, I never really consider precision shots when developing a strategy.


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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Sun Dec 09 2012, 04:04

Ok, it's quite clear precision shots and failed pin tests are not something we should be applying much effort to incorporate into our games.

Thanks for the responses.
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Tony Spectacular
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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Sun Dec 09 2012, 04:41

I like the Hex Rifle on a Haem who mans a Quad Gun. Gives him something to do on his turn after shooting the QG on the opponent's turn.

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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Thu Dec 13 2012, 06:09

Last night, I used a precision shot to shoot a power fist out of a GK unit. That fist was the only thing in the unit that could have hurt me in CC. They are always lucky shots, but you can take advantage of them.

Here's what I've been wondering. If you take Lelith and stick her on a quad gun, can she precision shoot it at infantry? This may be a stupid question since I haven't thought it through yet.

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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Thu Dec 13 2012, 07:27

I don't see why not. And until FAQed, her shots with the QG ignore armor.

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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Thu Dec 13 2012, 07:31

This is a bit off topic but could someone explain why people would want to use something that will get FAQed (lets just say for the sake of argument it will be)? I don't get it. If you think/know it's not correct why would you go "Yeah but it's technically legal so I'll do it till they force me to stop"? Seems strange to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Thu Dec 13 2012, 08:43

@Tony Spectacular wrote:
I don't see why not. And until FAQed, her shots with the QG ignore armor.

Thats very wishful thinking but no. Its not the model firing the gun that determines whether the gun itself ignores armour.

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Tony Spectacular
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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Thu Dec 13 2012, 08:50

I don't know about that. I don't think it's out of line to use that rule. It's her attack, and even in the description of the Penetrating Blade, it says that her preternatural sense acuity (paraphrasing, of course) allows her to find even the smallest chink in her opponent's armor. So both fluff and rules say that it will.

I've talked with bunches of people in real life about this (idly, as I don't field Lelith myself), and everyone seems amused, but universally they say that they would honor it in game. This is from everyone from opponents at pickup games at game shops to tournament opponents, and even TOs.

And I suppose I misspoke. I should have said unLESS FAQed, not unTIL.

I'm not a dirty player, guys. I'm not looking for unfair advantage. But I am willing to play with all of the true advantages that our book gets. And if the new edition creates opportunity for Lelith to have a shooting attack, then that attack should ignore armor unless GW says otherwise.
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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Fri Dec 14 2012, 00:10

maybe their is something in this, any model with BS 9 must be an amazing shot considering even if you roll a 1 to hit on a 3+ on the next roll you still hit so its not like she cant shoot, i wouldn't use her this way as i feel she is CC only and the BS 9 is cos it looks good lol
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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Fri Dec 14 2012, 00:57

As far as I know, 1's always miss. And that BS of 9; I think you are paying for it at least somewhat.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Fri Dec 14 2012, 01:06

@Malevolent-Storm wrote:
As far as I know, 1's always miss. And that BS of 9; I think you are paying for it at least somewhat.

Models with BS>5 get a reroll if they roll a 1, with the score needed on the reroll depending on the BS of the firer. With BS 9 you need 3+ on the reroll.

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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Fri Dec 14 2012, 01:09

Good to know. I'll have to find and tag that page in the book.

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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Fri Dec 14 2012, 01:20

you do miss on a roll of a 1 but if you are BS 6 or higher you get a reroll so BS6 needs 2+ if you get a 1 you get a re-roll but need a 6 to hit, BS 7 needs 2+ then 5+ BS 8 needs 2+ then 4+ and our own rock chick with BS 9 needs 2+ then a 3+ if she gets a 1 on the first die. yeah we are paying for a high BS that really wont get used unless you put her on sentry gun duty, so the point was maybe her shooting does ignore armour as such a high BS would indicate a real crack shot with a range weapon. so why have GW given her such a high BS, surely not for the plasma grenades she carries!! a succubus has a lower BS then its WS so maybe GW gave her this high BS for the reasons of being such a great shot that she does ignore armour and tagged in with precision shot maybe the first couple of turns on a quad gun could remove any special weapon troop threat from any unit in range.(twin linked heavy 4 str 7 ignore armour, choose model on a to hit roll of 6)

makes a fluffy case
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Fri Dec 14 2012, 01:24

@baster wrote:
yeah we are paying for a high BS that really wont get used unless you put her on sentry gun duty, so the point was maybe her shooting does ignore armour as such a high BS would indicate a real crack shot with a range weapon. so why have GW given her such a high BS, surely not for the plasma grenades she carries!! a succubus has a lower BS then its WS so maybe GW gave her this high BS for the reasons of being such a great shot that she does ignore armour and tagged in with precision shot maybe the first couple of turns on a quad gun could remove any special weapon troop threat from any unit in range.(twin linked heavy 4 str 7 ignore armour, choose model on a to hit roll of 6)

makes a fluffy case

Except she had exactly the same BS in 5e when she had no ranged attack of any kind.

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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Fri Dec 14 2012, 01:34

never played before 6th so still learning, they must charge a points cost for a BS 9 though as their must be formula they use to work out points costing in order to balance the game (cringe i only play DE, son plays SW) you have to laugh at that bit just don't make comment take it for the light hearted comment it was pls.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Fri Dec 14 2012, 01:39

No worries. We're generally pretty laid back here in the Dark City.

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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Fri Dec 14 2012, 01:42

Do shots count as 'attacks', though? I'd have interpreted the word 'attacks' to mean those arising from her in CC. It doesn't say 'hits', or 'wounds' (at least in the German edition), but 'attacks'.
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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Fri Dec 14 2012, 01:44

It says attacks in English too, but earlier in the book there is reference to 'shooting attacks'.

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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Fri Dec 14 2012, 01:48

This may now be a question for the Rules part of the forum?

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PostSubject: Re: Precision shots and overall strategy   Fri Dec 14 2012, 01:56

@baster wrote:
never played before 6th so still learning, they must charge a points cost for a BS 9 though as their must be formula they use to work out points costing in order to balance the game (cringe i only play DE, son plays SW) you have to laugh at that bit just don't make comment take it for the light hearted comment it was pls.

Lulz game balance... This is GW we are talking about, where they just slap special rules for free on everything!!! (and marines are slowly getting cheaper, while Xenos only get more expensive each edition)

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