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Damnosus
Hellion
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Join date : 2012-07-19
Location : Portland, OR

PostSubject: What Do You Do When...   Wed Nov 28 2012, 19:07

...you scan the forums and find multiple posts about how Dark Eldar are really gimped this edition and that you shouldn't expect to win if you play them? I cannot speak from a veteran's viewpoint, but as a player who has recently returned to the game, spent a decent amount of money on the army (750pts, so not horrible, but still a lot), who hasn't been super successful with them (I am learning but it is still rough), and who has a history of playing "weak" armies (Tau when they were first released, Necrons when they were first made into a true army, Dark elves before they were remade, and Dwarves), reading opinions and articles condemning the army is rather discouraging. I don't ever plan to play competitively, but I do get somewhat competitive when I play, so knowing that I am not playing on a balanced playing field will start to frustrate me sooner rather than later. I am just wondering how you folks react to such bad press?
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: What Do You Do When...   Wed Nov 28 2012, 19:45

How do you react in life to losers?

Just less competition, thats it. Thats what Archon would think, too =)

I dont see how they get any worse. There is issue with Flyers, but thats just GW trying to sell as many as they can and forcing that with lack of AA tools across the board. Once they will sell enough and decide to sell things that can kill overabundance of flyers - well, obvious will happen.

Dark Eldar can still bring brutal lists. With less AV on the boards, now more then ever.
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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: What Do You Do When...   Wed Nov 28 2012, 20:01

Quote :
I am just wondering how you folks react to such bad press?

I see what all the fuss is about by wiping the enemy off of the board with my Dark Eldar and thinking "What's all this fuss about?"
Ignore it, make your own opinion then go with that. You wouldn't believe the amount of doomsayers that were here with the release of sixth edition. It always pays to make your own decision in stead of blindly following what others have to say.

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Murkglow
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PostSubject: Re: What Do You Do When...   Wed Nov 28 2012, 20:19

Indeed, I just ignore it. I'll decide if I feel my army is "weak" or not. I won't bother listening to people who simply bash it. People are often either misinformed or ignorant (I just read a thread not long ago where a guy was saying Chaos from Warhammer Fantasy was a weak army, didn't give any evidence or argument as to why of course, when it's an army that has had plenty of good tourney showings). Heck think of it as an advantage. The more people believe that the less they'll expect from your army and the easier it will be to win and show them how wrong they are.


Last edited by Murkglow on Wed Nov 28 2012, 20:24; edited 1 time in total
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: What Do You Do When...   Wed Nov 28 2012, 20:22

A lot of people on the internet preach whilst never having played 6th edition let alone have regular games. So it's best to take things with a grain of salt. The tactics sections of most forums are mainly theory and speculation. Of course don't get me wrong I take advice from other members, but at the end of the day it only because solid once YOU have tried it out. At the end of the day it's YOU that needs to make your own decisions and judgement.

If your feeling down about Dark Eldar check out the Realspace Raid Section of this forum, it's where theory becomes practice!

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Last edited by Mushkilla on Thu Nov 29 2012, 10:59; edited 1 time in total
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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: What Do You Do When...   Wed Nov 28 2012, 20:51

what naysayers are you talking about??? DE are still a strong, competitive army. What were you looking at to say they werent??? We have the AI to kill most of these new fangled foot armies, and AT is great due to the changes in the damage chart (and HPs). Our army does take skill, but its still a blast to play and competitive to boot.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: What Do You Do When...   Wed Nov 28 2012, 21:16

Never gets boring either, there's just so much depth to this army, each time I think I have it sussed I discover a completely new way of playing it. That being said it takes times to learn, it's not a point and click adventure that's for sure.

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Balisong
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PostSubject: Re: What Do You Do When...   Thu Nov 29 2012, 02:37

I'm currently Ranked #2 in my club of 45+ players. Just using DE.

Been playing for about 4 months.

I have to say that this forum has been 100% responsible for my success.
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Orthien
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PostSubject: Re: What Do You Do When...   Thu Nov 29 2012, 02:54

After my 4 odd year break from 40k where I had never really finished learning the basics anyway I came back to start fresh with 5th ed and a new army Dark Eldar.
My first half a dozen games were not great I ether got stomped or drew/ lost the draw last round. It was dis-heartening to say the least but I kept tweaking my list and tactics every game. I knew DE had the ability to win I just couldn't seem to copy others results. Eventually though I started winning games and it was a good feeling.
Its all about finding what works for you both in models and in tactics. I am sure I would fail if I tried to play a game with Mushkilla's lists yet he has had success with them, similarly I have had wins pulled out thanks to Mandrakes who other people would refuse to field.
Moral is don't listen to other people as a hard set rule. Yes take advice from them but stick at what you enjoy, get good with it and you will win. Skill and knowledge win games, not lists.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: What Do You Do When...   Thu Nov 29 2012, 09:18

@Shadows Revenge wrote:
what naysayers are you talking about???

I've seen a few comments along the lines of DE being (almost) bottom of the pile. A particular blog which I won't dignify with a link is very scathing of them in 6e but I take most of that obnoxious bloggers comments with a sack of salt so I wouldn't worry too much about it. If the OP has been reading articles along those lines I can see why he might be worried but just play what you want to play, adpat your tactics to match your opponents and see what happens. Above all, have fun!

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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: What Do You Do When...   Thu Nov 29 2012, 09:54

I don't think we're much worse than in 5th. Sure, there have been some nerfs (overwatch really hurts Wytches and all vehicles exploding at s4 hurts us a lot), but some things have gotten better (hullpoints a really a buff to us, since it makes enemy vehicles a lot less durable, while our paper planes were unlikely to survive a more than a couple of hits to begin with). Overall Dark Eldar have always been a finesse army, that wins big or loses big depending on both skill and luck. The change in metagame has somewhat affected us, tho, as we lack ways to deal with flyer spam (but so does everybody not Necrons or IG), or masses of Marines I ran into the last tournament I was in (altough those armies got their asses handed to them by anything with long range artillery or flyerspam, so you probably don't have to worry too much about them).

It's true that I did a lot worse in the only torunament I've been to in this edition than in the last (one massacre win, one massacre loss and two close losses, compared to two massacre wins, one massacre loss and one almost complete win), but that was partly due to luck (in one game my Hellions failed a 5'' charge with rerolls and got shot to pieces by 30 Assault Marines, and in another the Baron failed the last shadowfield save of the game, netting the opponent a win through killing the warlord) and partly because I haven't yet figured the best way to make a list in 6th.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: What Do You Do When...   Thu Nov 29 2012, 10:59

What you will find is although everything works as before. However the way the game is played is completely different, you kind of need to re-learn everything. The way units are used has changed as well. Wyches NEED to use cover, reavers can be out in the open just fine with their 3+ or 4+ save, vehicles don't need cover with their Jink, taking advantage of wrecked/exploded vehicles is really important, the game is now objective based. Using cover, LoS blocking, focus fire, wound pool order with different weapons, going to ground for 3+ cover saves in area terrain, grenades, reserves, overwatch, precision shot, challenges etc. It's a whole new game and you can't play it with the same mindset as 5th.

I know a lot of players who think their armies got nerfed, when all it was is they were trying to play 6th the same way they played 5th. The best advice I can give, treat 6th as an entirely new game, and read through the rules several times as if learning a new system.

Hope that helps. Smile

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Here at The Dark City we guarantee to increase your win rate, by up to a 100%!*

*Terms a conditions apply, may not be suitable for all players, results may very.

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Lord Clazaryn
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PostSubject: Re: What Do You Do When...   Fri Nov 30 2012, 07:10

I wish there was a like button, Mushkilla, that was gold! Very Happy
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Darklight
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PostSubject: Re: What Do You Do When...   Fri Nov 30 2012, 09:40

Mushkill said some very good points!

I had a litle 2 month break or so, 1 month in the end of 5th and the start of 6th. Didnt really read much about the changes and stuff. So when I bought the new rulebook I read through it, and went in here to read at the forum. And there was so much negativity surrounding DE. People where whining and stuff about how bad it is compared to last.

But I have to say I dont agree. Yess we are properly at a worse state competitiveness. but I actually think overall I like this edition better. Because before it was pretty clear wich units you had to bring to be competitive, if you didnt then your army really wasnt as good as it could be. Now unit Y an Z work aswell as X. Maby not AS good, but the gap have closed abit. The venomspam might have gotten alitle knock, but its still a VERY competitive list. As you can see in my turnement report it was only stupid misstakes from me that let me down that one match.

It might also be that this edition suits my playstyle better than the last edition.

And for me, well its never going to be another team, so I was always going to get this working. And I have, I rarely loose, I think I have 3 looses so far in 6th ed. Chaos Demons, Deathwing and Orks. (2 of them to my stupid playing, and 1 to inzane rolling by oponent). And the only team I havnt faced so far this edition is IG.

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