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 Swapping to the Venom weapon on a Helliarch...

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Elithyr
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PostSubject: Swapping to the Venom weapon on a Helliarch...   Wed Nov 14 2012, 22:39

Is there any reason not to do this? I don't really get it. The normal weapon gives +1A and +1S, but swapping to Venom/Pistol makes you wound everything on a 2+ and still gives you +1A. What is the downside? I can't see any! I mean, it's a free swap after all.

The single reason I can come to think of is if you'd ever like to try and tackle a vehicle because then you'd need a strength value... but that's almost never going to happen, so what is it all about? I don't really get it.
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Talos
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PostSubject: Re: Swapping to the Venom weapon on a Helliarch...   Thu Nov 15 2012, 08:58

There is no reason not to take the venomblade.
Points values are off all over the place in the Dark elder codex, some wargear are overpriced, and some are underpriced.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Swapping to the Venom weapon on a Helliarch...   Thu Nov 15 2012, 20:09

Vehicles and Strength drug would be my answer.
Though the strength drug helps the v.blade too.

I'd also say Hellions are actually pretty solid to attack vehicles in this edition.

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Elithyr
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PostSubject: Re: Swapping to the Venom weapon on a Helliarch...   Fri Nov 16 2012, 17:47

Hm, I see then. I guess it's more or less an oversight or a personal taste thing. I'd not use hellions to go after any vehicle if I can help it, and if I did, the rest of the Hellions can compensate for the helliarch I am sure.

Thanks for the replies, altough I'm surprised it took 108 views to get 2 replies Razz A quiet bunch!
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Swapping to the Venom weapon on a Helliarch...   Fri Nov 16 2012, 18:09

I think if you are bothering with Helliarch you should take Power Lance on him, since hit n run almost always allows you to fight with its upgraded profile.

Venom Blade doesnt really add that much to a unit.
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Elithyr
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PostSubject: Re: Swapping to the Venom weapon on a Helliarch...   Fri Nov 16 2012, 18:32

Doesn't add that much to a unit? Wounding everything on a 2+ for no cost is a pretty damn nice deal I'd say.! Mainly I want him for his phantasm grenade launchers and the extra bit of leadership. What weapons he uses is a bit secondary to be honest, but I was really curious as to why the venom + pistol was free since it is more or less a must have option.
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Swapping to the Venom weapon on a Helliarch...   Fri Nov 16 2012, 19:01

Why not get the power spear? It ties in nicely with hit and run, and S4 power weapons are pretty handy. Smile

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Elithyr
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PostSubject: Re: Swapping to the Venom weapon on a Helliarch...   Fri Nov 16 2012, 19:07

It costs points, and if you do the math it really isn't all that much better at killing something with 3+ armor than the venom is (especially not in subsequent rounds of combat). I remember seeing comparisons between the Venom and the Agoniser, with the Agoniser coming out barely on top against Space Marines. Against anything not with 3+ armor, the venom is actually more efficient.

So while a power lance is marginally better than a venom on the charge, the venom is almost as good and superior in following rounds/if you get charged. It's also free! Smile
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Swapping to the Venom weapon on a Helliarch...   Fri Nov 16 2012, 21:02

And here you dont actually understand nature of hellions. They are taken in a large group with a Baron and either rack up pain tokens very fast or provided with them at start.

Meaning you have Strenght 5-6 Power Weapon for 5 points. Which is very good. And very cheap.
Agoniser comparison is not aplicable here.

And while i will say take venom blade all other cases, here power spear is too good to pass and subsequent rounds you will be recharging.

Its a safe bet to challenge 3+ sergeants basically. Likely Spear will kill him or he will back down. Very usefull with new Chaos.
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Elithyr
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PostSubject: Re: Swapping to the Venom weapon on a Helliarch...   Fri Nov 16 2012, 21:31

We'll just have to see! I'm fresh to Dark Eldar (coming from Eldar) so I'll just have to experimentate. They'll be entering my armies as allies first, and while Baron will be with my army he's not necessarily going with them.
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Swapping to the Venom weapon on a Helliarch...   Fri Nov 16 2012, 22:02

Here's the maths (assuming DE get the charge):

Hekatrix/Heliarch/Arena champion Against MEQ

Weapon round 1 round 2
Venom Blade 0.55 0.41
Power Spear 1 0.167
Agoniser 1 0.75

Hekatrix/Heliarch/Arena champion Against GEQ

Weapon round 1 round 2
Venom Blade 1.29 0.97
Power Spear 1.33 0.75
Agoniser 1 0.75

Hope that helps. Smile

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