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Tony Spectacular
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PostSubject: Regarding multiple combats   Mon Oct 08 2012, 02:35

I have a question which I'm sure is elementary, but I can't seem to find an answer in the BRB. The book only really clearly describes circumstances under which one unit charges multiple units simultaneously. I get how that works. What I'm trying to clear up is what happens when a second unit joins in to a combat. Say I want to assault an enemy unit with my wych squad + Haem. I charge the Haem in on his own and he survives the overwatch and makes it into combat (I'm not discussing the wisdom of such a decision, just the rules). We then resolve the combat. Lets assume he survives. At this point I charge with my wyches and they make it in as well (without the danger of overwatch this time). Are the enemy units allowed to swing back at the wyches as usual, or are they considered as having made their cc attacks and the wyches get to attack without reprisal (for this round, anyway)?

Also, I assume that the '3rd man in' would get the bonuses for charging. Is this correct?

Obviously the B2B prioritization will come in to play next round, but what happens this round?

Thanks!
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Maugarath D'harq
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding multiple combats   Mon Oct 08 2012, 03:27

Charges are always resolved BEFORE the fight phase. In other words, all your units have finished charging by the time the enemy gets to fight. So your wych squad would have to charge before the fight sub-phase, and the enemy could choose how to hit at them and the haemy.
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Tony Spectacular
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding multiple combats   Mon Oct 08 2012, 03:36

Ahhhh gotcha. That makes perfect sense. Overwatch is only applicable to the first charging unit, whether or not the unit which is charged decides to use it. The following units get to charge, with charge bonuses, but cannot suffer overwatch. Thank you so much.

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Grumpy Kwi
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding multiple combats   Mon Oct 08 2012, 15:21

Hold on - just some additional clarification.

Does the unit that is being charged get to choose to whom they get to fire at?

In Tony's example, does the defending unit get to choose between the Haemy or the Wyches?

I know many thought that if you declare the Haemy to charge first that defending unit had to decide to shoot at the Haemy or not at all because once the Haemy gets into base contact the defending unit is then engaged and can't fire at the wyches.

Was this cleared up or can the 1st unit you moved to charge tie up the defending unit?

Sorry if this is obvious.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding multiple combats   Mon Oct 08 2012, 15:37

@Grumpy Kwi wrote:
Hold on - just some additional clarification.

Does the unit that is being charged get to choose to whom they get to fire at?

In Tony's example, does the defending unit get to choose between the Haemy or the Wyches?

I know many thought that if you declare the Haemy to charge first that defending unit had to decide to shoot at the Haemy or not at all because once the Haemy gets into base contact the defending unit is then engaged and can't fire at the wyches.

Was this cleared up or can the 1st unit you moved to charge tie up the defending unit?

Sorry if this is obvious.

Overwatch happens when charges are declared, which is done one unit at a time. So as soon as you declare a charge with the Haem, the opponent has to decide whether he will Overwatch. After that he will either have used his overwatch for the combat or will be engaged and unable to overwatch.

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Darkgreen Pirate
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding multiple combats   Mon Oct 08 2012, 16:10

Yup, Adhemar is right. You have to declare whether or not to overwatch immediately after a unit has declared their charge; you do not get to wait and see who else charges that unit and then choose who to overwatch nor do you get to see how far the unit rolls on its charge distance to see if it makes it before you overwatch. As per pages 20-21 "The Assault Phase", a unit may only fire overwatch once per turn, and a unit locked in close combat cannot fire overwatch.

So yes split the Haemy in the movement phase, declare your going to charge him first and let the wyches charge after avoiding overwatch (if the haemy made it in that is Shocked ) All perfectly by the rules. Twisted Evil

As far as who the charged unit attacks, it all comes down to initiative steps; units "Pile In" 3 inches at their initiative step to move into base, within 2 inches of someone in base, or into coherency as per pages 22&23. It does not clarify which unit they have to move towards to assault, just that the movement follow the above restrictions.

Whats interesting to me is the haemy is init 4, The wyches 6, so even though he declares his charge first, the wyches will go ahead of him in the fight subphase. He's basically a 60 point or so distraction/paintoken vendor that lets your wyches/succubus/leilith etc. get into assault easier. I can just see it...

"Hey, Mon-Keigh marines! Over here! Im a hideous Xenos fleshcrafter! Im gonna use your genehanced bodies for experiments! Na-na na-na na na!" And while they are busy watching him, the Wyches ready their blades.....

Think I might have to model a Haemy with some celery.

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Tony Spectacular
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding multiple combats   Mon Oct 08 2012, 21:46

Heh. That's kind of exactly what the plan was. Also, the Haem doesn't have fleet, so charging him in first will allow the wyches to get there, even if he doesn't make it. He still got to lay down the liquifire, gave them a token, helped them not to split if their numbers dropped below 25%, and now has saved them from overwatch. Even if he doesn't strike a single blow, he's still earned every one of his points. And if he gets into combat, he stands a decent chance of making it out, as long as the wyches do (for reasons Darkgreen posted above).

Mwahahah...and if he does die, who cares? I'll feast on his pain just like I'll feast on the sorrow of the Mon-keigh. Mourn my fallen 'brother'? What am I, Tau?

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding multiple combats   Tue Oct 09 2012, 16:54

but you also run the risk of the haemie not making the charge, and the opponent not shooting him, to which the wyches now take the brunt of the overwatch. That being said, if your running them both out of a raider, they both should make it no problem Razz

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding multiple combats   Tue Oct 09 2012, 16:57

@Shadows Revenge wrote:
but you also run the risk of the haemie not making the charge, and the opponent not shooting him, to which the wyches now take the brunt of the overwatch. That being said, if your running them both out of a raider, they both should make it no problem Razz

You fire overwatch before rolling charge distance. Even if the distance is insufficient you still take the overwatch fire.

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding multiple combats   Tue Oct 09 2012, 17:47

I mean if the opponent chooses not to shoot the hamie, and then the haemie doesnt make it. He is still allowed to shoot the wyches charging in next. Its a risk, but it all depends on the placement of the models

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Tony Spectacular
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding multiple combats   Wed Oct 10 2012, 00:43

So to be sure of nullifying overwatch, you want to get in as close as possible with the Raider (opposite to all of my instincts) before disembarking, yeah? Get the ship in to about 12", 6" disembark directly towards the enemy unit with the Haem, leave the wyches 2" from him, then declare his charge. I doubt they'll disregard a charge from 6".

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