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 Challenges and Mind scarabs

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Grumpy Kwi
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PostSubject: Challenges and Mind scarabs   Tue 11 Sep - 14:11

Was reading various questions and one came up that I thought was interesting and was wondering if any of you agree.

If you are charging a Necron unit with an HQ dude with Mind scarabs, 2 things happen at the same time but neither actually says which is first and that is challenges and the mind scarabs. It was later revealed the charging player can decide when each of these takes place for example:

I could tell the Necron player that his mind scarabs goes first and then when that is done that challenges would be done next.

This would get the scarabs out of the way before the challenge occurs.

So is this true? Is this how everyone sees it or does the book or codex say otherwise? The reasoning that I find useful is that there are things that happen before combat and the charging player can pick which event happens first (and the reverse is true too, if it was the Necron player, he could claim the challenge to go first then resolve Mind scarabs once he is in contact with your HQ).

Just curious.

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Siticus the Ancient
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PostSubject: Re: Challenges and Mind scarabs   Tue 11 Sep - 15:59

Yep, this seems to be my interpretation as well. The player doing the charge chooses the order of the simultaneous effects.

Honestly, this is the only way to actually deal with the stupid Mindshackle Scarabs. I don't even know why the hell they exist.

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Seshiru
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PostSubject: Re: Challenges and Mind scarabs   Tue 11 Sep - 16:01

The MindShackle Scarabs got an erratta last week to have the Necron player "Randomily Select" a person in base to base with the bearer, which doesn't help since if the challenge came first then potentially there would only be one person in base to base.

But I do believe both triggers have the same timing and as I understand it, that makes it the choice of the active player on what order they get resolved (I don't remember the page number but it was something about multiple effects that happen at the same time).
I could be mistaken (and would love to be corrected if so), but that how my very small play group understands it to be.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Challenges and Mind scarabs   Wed 12 Sep - 3:13

@Seshiru wrote:
The MindShackle Scarabs got an erratta last week to have the Necron player "Randomily Select" a person in base to base with the bearer, which doesn't help since if the challenge came first then potentially there would only be one person in base to base.

But I do believe both triggers have the same timing and as I understand it, that makes it the choice of the active player on what order they get resolved (I don't remember the page number but it was something about multiple effects that happen at the same time).
I could be mistaken (and would love to be corrected if so), but that how my very small play group understands it to be.

That change happened in the first FAQ (it's not from last week). And yes the active player gets to chose what happens first, challenge or scarabs (of course once you are in a challenge you can't avoid it).

I do find grizly trophies helps as they let you re-roll leadership tests, giving you a lot higher chance of the scarabs not working.

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Siticus the Ancient
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PostSubject: Re: Challenges and Mind scarabs   Wed 12 Sep - 13:37

Grizly trophies. Huh, I might actually have to try that piece of wargear out for my beatstick Archon's Venom... I have never used that piece of wargear, since DE high leadership usually is more than enough. Scarabs, though, are a different beast entirely.

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PostSubject: Re: Challenges and Mind scarabs   Wed 12 Sep - 13:38

@Siticus the Ancient wrote:
Grizly trophies. Huh, I might actually have to try that piece of wargear out for my beatstick Archon's Venom... I have never used that piece of wargear, since DE high leadership usually is more than enough. Scarabs, though, are a different beast entirely.

The hard part is keeping the venom alive.

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Kayto_Karite
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PostSubject: Re: Challenges and Mind scarabs   Thu 20 Sep - 9:06

@Seshiru wrote:

But I do believe both triggers have the same timing and as I understand it, that makes it the choice of the active player on what order they get resolved (I don't remember the page number but it was something about multiple effects that happen at the same time).
I could be mistaken (and would love to be corrected if so), but that how my very small play group understands it to be.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Challenges and Mind scarabs   Thu 20 Sep - 9:25

@Kayto_Karite wrote:
@Seshiru wrote:

But I do believe both triggers have the same timing and as I understand it, that makes it the choice of the active player on what order they get resolved (I don't remember the page number but it was something about multiple effects that happen at the same time).
I could be mistaken (and would love to be corrected if so), but that how my very small play group understands it to be.

Exceptions Rule Pg. 9 BRB (Best rule in 6th Edition)

Otherwise known as "When we can't write rules that actually tell you how they work, just let something totally external to the game and/or models involved determine the outcome"

Best rule my arse!

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Kayto_Karite
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PostSubject: Re: Challenges and Mind scarabs   Thu 20 Sep - 9:38

@Count Adhemar wrote:

Otherwise known as "When we can't write rules that actually tell you how they work, just let something totally external to the game and/or models involved determine the outcome"

Best rule my arse!

Well until GW adopts the Stack from Magic: The Gathering. This is the best we are going to get for 40K. No other rule explains what happens in the event of two rules taking place at the same time. This rule being lazy as it is stops debates. I once had a debate about FNP and Hexrifle. In 5th we ended up rolling off to see which occured first. At least in 6th I can declare on my turn that the Hexrifle ability activates first before my opponent can take a FNP roll.

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