HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityFAQUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Razorwings Never Tire?

Go down 
AuthorMessage
Sky Serpent
Adrenalight Junkie
avatar

Posts : 2419
Join date : 2011-02-26
Location : Dais Of Administration

PostSubject: Razorwings Never Tire?   Tue Aug 21 2012, 22:00

Quick question regarding the Big Guns....mission where Heavy Support vehicles may claim objectives.

Does this apply to flyers too or are they too far off the ground to be within 3"?

_________________

Administrator of The Dark City - Please message me any suggestions, improvements or problems

Back to top Go down
http://www.thedarkcity.net
CaptainBalroga
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 283
Join date : 2012-04-08
Location : Space is the place

PostSubject: Re: Razorwings Never Tire?   Wed Aug 22 2012, 06:44

Fliers are never scoring or denial units, not even for things like Linebreaker. They can't claim objectives. Unfortunately, they still give an extra VP if destroyed on Big Guns Never Tire!

EDIT: As noted below, this is wrong.


_________________


Last edited by CaptainBalroga on Thu Aug 23 2012, 05:32; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Orthien
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 300
Join date : 2012-04-23

PostSubject: Re: Razorwings Never Tire?   Wed Aug 22 2012, 07:29

Where does it say they are not scoring or denial even in BGNT?

_________________
I'll kill a man in a fair fight...or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight.

Kabalite Warrior Helm Project Log: http://www.thedarkcity.net/t5342-real-life-kabalite-helm
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
avatar

Posts : 7197
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

PostSubject: Re: Razorwings Never Tire?   Wed Aug 22 2012, 10:37

Doesn't BGNT specifically say that vehicles count as scoring/denial units as long as they are from your Heavy Support slots?

_________________

You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Tiri Rana
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 441
Join date : 2011-06-16
Location : Essen, Germany

PostSubject: Re: Razorwings Never Tire?   Wed Aug 22 2012, 11:19

I found no rule that said that fliers can't score, even if they qualified to do so otherwise. The only two rules I found are that normally only Troop choices score and that vehicles normally can't score, even if they qualify, by being Troop choices for example.
But the heavy metal special rule explicitly overrides those rules, so it should be possible for fliers to score in the big guns never tire scenario.

_________________

I must rule with eye and claw — as the hawk among lesser birds.
Back to top Go down
Mushkilla
Arena Champion
avatar

Posts : 4015
Join date : 2012-07-16
Location : Toroid Arena

PostSubject: Re: Razorwings Never Tire?   Wed Aug 22 2012, 11:23

However, because of bad rule writing, vehicles can never contests (and the heavy metal rule only makes them scoring). So you could have a troop choice next to your opponents vehicle and contest it as well as scoring the objective. Or you could have two vehicles next to an objective (one from each side) and they would both score the objective. Madness...

_________________
Latest Report: BR4: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Imperial Knights - 1250pts
Pragmatic Realspace Raider Series


“Even the Black Buzzards thought highly of him, and those maniacs were renowned for hating everyone.” - Tantalus, by Braden Campbell
Back to top Go down
Shadows Revenge
Hierarch of Tactica
avatar

Posts : 2587
Join date : 2011-08-10
Location : Bmore

PostSubject: Re: Razorwings Never Tire?   Wed Aug 22 2012, 18:24

Flyers can score and contest in big guns never tire... there is nothing against it. And remember everything is measured from the base except when trying to shoot the gun. So the height doesnt effect it

_________________
Status:
Usurping Kabal leadership for his Patriarch

Current List:
First 2k GSC List
Back to top Go down
Tiri Rana
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 441
Join date : 2011-06-16
Location : Essen, Germany

PostSubject: Re: Razorwings Never Tire?   Wed Aug 22 2012, 19:49

While I think almost all will agree, that it is meant to says that, it's not in the rules.
Scoring units and denial units are two different classes and being a scoring unit doesn't encompass being a denial unit. And while in all standard missions almost all units are denial units, vehicles are not and this limitation is never retracted.

The flight stand is another thing. The flyer rules tell us that:
BRB p.80 wrote:
The base of a Flyer is effectively ignored, except for when:
  • The Flyer is being assaulted, in which case models may move into contact with the vehicle's hull, its base or both.

  • Models are embarking or disembarking from the Flyer, in which case the base of the Flyer is used as the Access Point.

There is (oddly enough) another case in the next paragraph, when we are told, that models may move underneath the Flyer, but have to stay away at least 1" from the base, but in all other instances ranges should be measured from the Flyers hull.

_________________

I must rule with eye and claw — as the hawk among lesser birds.
Back to top Go down
Darkos
Slave
avatar

Posts : 13
Join date : 2012-08-20
Location : Terrassa, Spain

PostSubject: Re: Razorwings Never Tire?   Thu Aug 23 2012, 02:12


Is very clearly steted in misión rules that Vehicles DO SCORE, if they are taken from the heavy slot. So, yes Razorwings and Voidrevens can control objectives.

Question here, is as per rules, you have to put the flyer’s hull at 3 UM from objective to do so…. because, as cleverly pointed by Tiri rana, flyer’s base is almost always ignored. I’m not sure, but I think the flight stand of the Razorwing holds it more than 3 UM from the ground, so is possible that we have a scoring unit that cannot effectively score….
Back to top Go down
CaptainBalroga
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 283
Join date : 2012-04-08
Location : Space is the place

PostSubject: Re: Razorwings Never Tire?   Thu Aug 23 2012, 05:32

Ah, it seems that I am incorrect. My mistake!

_________________
Back to top Go down
Ben_S
Sybarite


Posts : 376
Join date : 2012-05-20
Location : Stirling, Scotland

PostSubject: Re: Razorwings Never Tire?   Fri Aug 24 2012, 12:06

@Darkos wrote:

II think the flight stand of the Razorwing holds it more than 3 UM from the ground, so is possible that we have a scoring unit that cannot effectively score….

Do objectives have to be on ground level? What if it's on top of a building? Then the Razorwing hull could be within 3".
Back to top Go down
Darkos
Slave
avatar

Posts : 13
Join date : 2012-08-20
Location : Terrassa, Spain

PostSubject: Re: Razorwings Never Tire?   Sat Aug 25 2012, 10:09

Of course, objectives in higher ground could be easier to catch. But a clever opponent would try to put them as far of your reach as possible.

Also, you can model your Razorwing on a low stand, and fluff it as flying “under the radar range”…
Laughing
Back to top Go down
Chaeril
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 362
Join date : 2012-05-09
Location : Ghent, Belgium

PostSubject: Re: Razorwings Never Tire?   Sun Aug 26 2012, 21:56

A terrain capturing flyer... Now that would be the very first in history. You can shoot everything to hell with an airforce but if you want to contest anything you would need a land army - imho.

And yes yes the rules may say otherwise... Not the first time I would frown.

_________________
'Void Scorpions', Dark Eldar Wych Cult at http://www.thedarkcity.net/t3029-void-scorpions
'Nomad Legion', Necromundan Imperial Guard army at http://www.thedarkcity.net/t3254-project-log-the-nomad-legion-necromundan-ig-army
Other projects and distractions at http://www.thedarkcity.net/t3385-chaeril-s-distractions
Back to top Go down
Darkos
Slave
avatar

Posts : 13
Join date : 2012-08-20
Location : Terrassa, Spain

PostSubject: Re: Razorwings Never Tire?   Mon Aug 27 2012, 12:51

I know. But warhammer is almost never about common sense. Is like being able to shoot your 5 man squad from the full board length, across a forest and a ruined building, if I manage to draw a line between all branches and through a window, even if I’m able to see just an arm. (go, go true LOS!)

But thinking a bit on the subject, it could be tricky to place a flyer correctly to control/contest an objective. You are forced to move no less than 18”, in straight line, and allowed just a 90º turn. It would require some planning to not get too far and find the correct facing.
Back to top Go down
Shadows Revenge
Hierarch of Tactica
avatar

Posts : 2587
Join date : 2011-08-10
Location : Bmore

PostSubject: Re: Razorwings Never Tire?   Mon Aug 27 2012, 16:44

@Darkos wrote:
I know. But warhammer is almost never about common sense. Is like being able to shoot your 5 man squad from the full board length, across a forest and a ruined building, if I manage to draw a line between all branches and through a window, even if I’m able to see just an arm. (go, go true LOS!)

remember though, your only be able to kill that one guy... so its not that all unrealistic...

_________________
Status:
Usurping Kabal leadership for his Patriarch

Current List:
First 2k GSC List
Back to top Go down
Darkos
Slave
avatar

Posts : 13
Join date : 2012-08-20
Location : Terrassa, Spain

PostSubject: Re: Razorwings Never Tire?   Mon Aug 27 2012, 16:56

Yes, they fixed it a bit in 6th. But I have so many games, where a single visible arm allowed my wyches/warriors squad to be fully blown away still fresh in my memory… sigh!
But I’m going away from the topic…
Back to top Go down
Krovin-Rezh
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 131
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Arizona

PostSubject: Re: Razorwings Never Tire?   Tue Aug 28 2012, 03:34

Well, DE already want tall terrain due to the height of their Raiders & Ravagers. I imagine it wouldn't be hard to find a spot for one of the objectives that the Razorwing can reach. A hill or a building with battlements would do fine. If you wanted to be a little cheeky, you could even stick an objective up in a tree. lol

Perhaps the non-denial "bad rules writing" is how GW decided to design what Chaeril is talking of about needing ground army elements.

_________________
KR
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Razorwings Never Tire?   

Back to top Go down
 
Razorwings Never Tire?
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Rules: Queries & Questions
-
Jump to: