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 The Raven Strike fighter in the new Aeronautica

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PrivateLucky
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PostSubject: The Raven Strike fighter in the new Aeronautica   Wed Aug 15 2012, 16:38

I'm a bit intrigued about this dark eldar flyer as it is the only one we have with Vector Dance since the Forgeworld PDF update for 6th. But with the release of the new Forge World Aeronautica I won't know if it's worth it to get the book until after I buy it. So is the raven strike fighter better than it was after the 6th edition update or has it not changed? If not would just adding a nightwing interceptor to my allied eldar contingent be better since it has better anti tank capabilities and is also a fast attack choice? I just want something with vector dancer so I can outmaneuver other flyers and get in rear shots at tanks. It is curious how our flyers dont have vector dancer though isn't it?
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Starstrider
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PostSubject: Re: The Raven Strike fighter in the new Aeronautica   Wed Aug 15 2012, 19:58

Indeed, I also find it rather odd we were not given Vector Dancer or at least give the Razorwing Strafing Run.

Now, I have looked briefly through the new Aeronautica book (only really at the Eldar and Deldar stuff, mind Razz) and I'm pretty sure the Raven has changed very little in that it still has the same weapons, stats and the Sky Assassin stuff since the 6th ed update but it has been given a new rule called Evasive. Now, I can't find any rules for that but it may have been a typo to what seems a similar new special rule introduced for flyers by the book called Agile which grants +1 to jink saves when you are Evading. It also has Strafing Run but it may have had that already, not sure. I can't remember if it has Vector Dancer or if the points have changed but I'm pretty sure that the version in the new book is around the 200pts mark. Oh, and it's now Fast Attack which is nice. So you can have 3 Ravens and 3 Razorwings or Voidravens as you so wish.

I am now considering very much allying in Eldar in larger points games not just for the Farseer buffs but also for access to the Nightwing, Phoenix, Firestorm and Warp Hunter.

The Nightwing and Phoenix haven't changed since the 6th ed update but they have been given a new special rule. Now, I'm not 100% the Phoenix got it but the Nightwing definitely has. That rule is Agile, as described above. This means the Nightwing has a 5+ cover save as standard which increases to 2+ if you choose to Evade which is very tasty. Very Happy They both have Vector Dancer and Strafing Run as well of course so they're pretty cool. Points haven't changed.

Obviously the Firestorm is nice for anti-air cabailities, with its uber scatter lasers which have both Skyfire and Interceptor. Has the same transport capacity as a Falcon so could be useful for driving a Farseer around or a small Aspect Squad I guess. Same statline as before, sadly including BS and points cost which is a bit off putting. The other issue with this is that it is still in the extremely competitive Heavy Support section of the Eldar Codex which is even more competitive now than in 5th due to the Phoenix being introduced and artillery, Dark Reapers and Fire Prisms getting a buff. Don't forget this is also the slot for the Warp Hunter which is another serious consideration for an ally as one on its own can function well and is equipped to deal with virtually any target.

So, the new Aeronautica book includes a few new changes which add a bit of survivability and moves the Raven into Fast Attack so it isn't competing with our other flyers. It is expensive though. The Eldar flyers are very nice and the Nightwing isn't too expensive either. Both are excellent at eliminating ground targets, dogfighting and can survive a lot of firepower should you choose to evade. Oh, and they have Vector Dancer. Smile
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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: The Raven Strike fighter in the new Aeronautica   Wed Aug 15 2012, 20:11

Nightwing and Phoenix are indeed nice. Firestorm is still overpirced (over twice the points cost of the Hydra with worse guns, and doesn't even have auto-targetting. Half the new Imperial AA units have it, but the only Xenos unit with it is the Tau fighter for its burst cannons).

Raven seem overpriced too. The thing costs as much as a Voidraven with 4 missiles, despite having less weapons, less armour and less hull points. It does have vector dancer and is a fast attack unit now, so it has some advantages. Compared to the Nightwing (which has vector dancer and the same armour and hull points, but also shrouded and two lances instead of one twinlinked one), the Raven is about 70 points more expensive (including flickerfield in the cost). It has strafing run (effectively bs5 against ground targets, and causes pinning), but that alone is hardly worth the points increase over the Nightwing. The entry also appears to have an error, with a special rule called "evasive", which is never explained in the book or the BRB. I think they meant agile, which the Raven othervise lacks.

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PostSubject: Re: The Raven Strike fighter in the new Aeronautica   Wed Aug 15 2012, 21:26

@Nomic wrote:
Raven seem overpriced too. The thing costs as much as a Voidraven with 4 missiles, ....

There is an 80-point discrepancy between the new Aeronautica book and the recent IA Apocalypse 2nd Edition. In IAA 2nd, it only costs 10pts more than a bog-standard Ravager, which is about what I would reasonably expect for it (also similar to the Dakkajet). Watch for the Aeronautica FAQ.

I wouldn't use it for air-to-air unless I had to, the poisoned cannon is useless and so it only has one TL DL. To me, it's primarily a ground strafer.
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PostSubject: Re: The Raven Strike fighter in the new Aeronautica   Wed Aug 15 2012, 22:02

Moving to Fast Attack is very attractive to me.

However the model is hideous and completely rules me out.

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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: The Raven Strike fighter in the new Aeronautica   Thu Aug 16 2012, 06:45

I do like the fact that the fluff for it in the new book attempts to justify it not matching the new model range by stating it's the oldest DE flyer still in use, and many Kabals dislike it for being crude and ugly.

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PostSubject: Re: The Raven Strike fighter in the new Aeronautica   Thu Aug 16 2012, 10:56

@Nomic wrote:
I do like the fact that the fluff for it in the new book attempts to justify it not matching the new model range by stating it's the oldest DE flyer still in use, and many Kabals dislike it for being crude and ugly.

Really? I hadn't noticed they'd added that to the fluff in the new book. Haha, that's just brilliant! Laughing Well, I guess I'm going to be one of those Archons who dislike it. Razz

It's also rather odd how the fluff doesn't really match up with its weapons. It's described as an air-to-air fighter, emphasised by the Sky Assassin rule and yet its main gun is completely useless against such targets and a single-twin-linked Dark Lance isn't going to scare anybody. I had a feeling its points had increased but couldn't remember what it was in IAA 2nd and didn't have the book to hand. I agree that its new points cost is very much overpriced and they should have left it at its old cost. At least it has been moved to Fast Attack which is something I guess.
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PostSubject: Re: The Raven Strike fighter in the new Aeronautica   Thu Aug 16 2012, 11:41

Having played a friends Tzeentch daemon army with lots of flying things (which have got very good and you will see this army around) I am starting to contemplate one as an anti flying circus mobile. Those 10 splinter shots should shoot any chicken out of the sky.

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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: The Raven Strike fighter in the new Aeronautica   Thu Aug 16 2012, 12:31

I also agree with the sentiment of "decent rules, god-ugly model". If it got updated to match the new design, then it'd be pretty awesome. As it stands, it just looks like ass.

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PostSubject: Re: The Raven Strike fighter in the new Aeronautica   Thu Aug 16 2012, 18:38

@Nomic wrote:
I do like the fact that the fluff for it in the new book attempts to justify it not matching the new model range by stating it's the oldest DE flyer still in use, and many Kabals dislike it for being crude and ugly.

@Aroshamash wrote:
I also agree with the sentiment of "decent rules, god-ugly model". If it got updated to match the new design, then it'd be pretty awesome. As it stands, it just looks like ass.

I almost found the fluff to be apologetic in tone - " ... considered somewhat vulgar .... falling out of favour with many kabals ...." which you could potentially interpret as "So sorry we don't have a replacement model to offer you yet, in the meantime ... "

It is clearly described as primarily a ground-attack fighter. It is also "the oldest and smallest" of the DE fighter craft, however, having seen comparison pics of it, anything else would thus be close to a Razorwing in size, which seems excessive for a pure-gun fighter. Mind you, a Dakkajet isn't exactly small.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised to see a replacement arrive whenever IA13 does (or whichever IA book does eventually cover DE).
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PostSubject: Re: The Raven Strike fighter in the new Aeronautica   Thu Aug 16 2012, 19:35

Oh, so they've changed its role in the fluff have they? Well that makes more sense. I believe in IAA 2nd it was described as its primary targets being other aircraft but I'm glad that's changed.

Now that you mention it, I can see it being rather useful against flying MCs. I still think it's too expensive in points though and the model completely puts me off.
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PostSubject: Re: The Raven Strike fighter in the new Aeronautica   Sat Aug 18 2012, 11:21

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PostSubject: Re: The Raven Strike fighter in the new Aeronautica   Sun Aug 26 2012, 03:16

OK, little bit of a thread necro and I apologize.

I jjust got my first look at this book finally, and I was absolutely floored. This is right back to the same garbage we had with the first IA Apocalypse book. 200+ points for basically nothing. When the IA Apoc 2nd Edition brought it down under 150, I thought it was perfect, sure the weapons didn't mace sense, but it aligned very nicely vs the Nightwing.

Now we have, 145 pts for an Eldar Flyer with a 5+ cover save, increased to 2+ when it evades, sporting 4 weapons usable vs ground or flying, with the vector dancer rules.

Or, 215 pts for a Dark Eldar Flyer with a 5+ invuln save that never increases so why jink ever, sporting 2 guns, 1 anti vehicle, the other anti troop, with vector dancer and strafing run?

Frustrates me to no end, I had just about finished a wonderful Scratch Build replacement for that ugly Batwing knockoff.

Hopefully there's an errata coming.
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PostSubject: Re: The Raven Strike fighter in the new Aeronautica   Sun Aug 26 2012, 03:49

honestly, if they'd just give the splinter cannon a STR value it would be okay at denting other flyers.
like how it used to have STR4 back in 3rd edition.
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