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SiLKY
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PostSubject: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Wed Jul 18 2012, 18:53

Currently I'm running a Agoniser/SF/Drugs/PGL archon but I'm thinking of switching the agoniser to a power axe.
Just wondering what you guys are running.
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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Wed Jul 18 2012, 18:59

I don't normally run archons. I occasionally run a succubus with haywire and a venom blade, cheap and cheerful.

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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Wed Jul 18 2012, 21:23

Problem with taking a power axe is the initiative nerf you get from using it, I feel more comfortable keeping the huskblade, ok so it doesn't ignore a 2+ save but any failed saves mean instant death and you're always going to be striking first unless you're up against a succubus.

I really like to kit out my archon though, keep him for the bigger games but he's got a lot of equipment.

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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Wed Jul 18 2012, 22:07

Archon with S.Field, C.Drugs, Huskblade, Blaster. I like him this way and I shall never shange him.

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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Thu Jul 19 2012, 01:53

Succubus with Agonizer and Haywire Grenades. I haven't had much luck with the huskblade, so I take Combat Drugs/PGL/Shadowfield/Agonizer.
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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Thu Jul 19 2012, 02:00

So far, I've been taking Succubus, Blast Pistol, Agonizer and Haywire Grenades. Comes in at 105.
My cheapest HQ of choice, since I believe everyone with BS5+ should have some kind of devastating firepower sidearm.

As for my Archon, I go with:
Drugs, Shadow Field, Blaster, Agonizer, Haywire = 140.

18" BS7 Blaster shot is no joke.

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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Thu Jul 19 2012, 06:58

HEROBEAR wrote:
So far, I've been taking Succubus, Blast Pistol, Agonizer and Haywire Grenades. Comes in at 105.
My cheapest HQ of choice, since I believe everyone with BS5+ should have some kind of devastating firepower sidearm.

The 6" range of the blast pistol has always put me off. Especially now with 2d6 charge and fleet I find it hardly get's used. Not to mention with the addition of plasma grenades, the succubus always has something to use that BS for.

In you experience is it really that useful?
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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Thu Jul 19 2012, 08:58

with friends, i take klaive for 15 pts - pw, +1 str - soul trap, drugs, shadowfield, pgl.
not with friends depends on nmy:
a) ago, sf, drugs, pgl
b) huskblade, soult, drugs, sf, pgl.
on a "youcantchangethings" basis, not with friends type a) is used.

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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Thu Jul 19 2012, 14:53

Archon- Power Axe, Shadowfield, Combat Drugs, Haywires (and PGL if with incubi)

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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Thu Jul 19 2012, 17:53

I put hydra gauntlets on my succubus, she goes in my units of bloodbrides (or will once I've built them). It's more of a visual thing though, and a dice thing, 6 normal bloodbrides, 3 with hydra gauntlets and a succubus with the same? That's a lot of dice to roll!

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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Thu Jul 19 2012, 18:27

The_Burning_Eye wrote:
I put hydra gauntlets on my succubus, she goes in my units of bloodbrides (or will once I've built them). It's more of a visual thing though, and a dice thing, 6 normal bloodbrides, 3 with hydra gauntlets and a succubus with the same? That's a lot of dice to roll!

I see it now ... Hexephenia slayer of a million grots! Wink

Now if hydra gauntlets made here attack rending then we would be talking. It's a shame succubi don't come standard with rending attacks, it would have made the wych weapons more interesting. Hydra gauntlets for the high number of attacks and razor-flails for re-rolling hit/wounds would both have been great options.
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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Thu Jul 19 2012, 18:46

Nicely put, though she did take out a terminator squad with a captain once (with the wound ablative qualities of a squad of wyches to help out a bit) cos when you're rolling that many dice, some get through. Granted it's a bit crude but it does work.

ps. her name's Alari Druith'sila.

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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Thu Jul 19 2012, 20:28

Yeah I'm really tempted to go power axe just to use the succubus' halberd as a weapon for my archon.
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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Thu Jul 19 2012, 21:56

Nooooooooo! If you want AP2 take a klaivex with demi-klaives, do you realise how rare I7 is???

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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Thu Jul 19 2012, 22:22

The_Burning_Eye wrote:
Granted it's a bit crude but it does work.

I'm well aware of that being an Ork player. A bucket of dice is the great equaliser! Smile

The_Burning_Eye wrote:
Nooooooooo! If you want AP2 take a klaivex with demi-klaives, do you realise how rare I7 is???

Power axes make me sad, they should halve initiative, not reduce it 1.


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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Fri Jul 20 2012, 01:25

Mushkilla wrote:


The_Burning_Eye wrote:
Nooooooooo! If you want AP2 take a klaivex with demi-klaives, do you realise how rare I7 is???

Power axes make me sad, they should halve initiative, not reduce it 1.



Power Axes make me sad because you can attack at least as easily with an ax as you can a sword.
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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Fri Jul 20 2012, 07:51

LTKage wrote:
Mushkilla wrote:


The_Burning_Eye wrote:
Nooooooooo! If you want AP2 take a klaivex with demi-klaives, do you realise how rare I7 is???

Power axes make me sad, they should halve initiative, not reduce it 1.



Power Axes make me sad because you can attack at least as easily with an ax as you can a sword.

I gave up on axes being treated fairly years ago, in games it just seems to be the ugly slow step sister of the sword.

I would love to have an archon with a DE themed dane-axe doing all the elegant sweeps, trips and hooks. I could see him using it to pull himself onto a raider as it flies past at the end of a battle, like a boss. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Fri Jul 20 2012, 08:24

Mushkilla wrote:
The_Burning_Eye wrote:
Granted it's a bit crude but it does work.

I'm well aware of that being an Ork player. A bucket of dice is the great equaliser! Smile


haha, yes, well, a bucket of dice that can go from awsome to holy hell no way wrong in one turn of rolling...somehow that doesnt stop lootas *pokerface

edit:
ps.: i just fell in love with Lhamhean and will use it for my archoness! Although with a nother paint theme ofc Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Fri Jul 20 2012, 09:37

Mushkilla wrote:
HEROBEAR wrote:
So far, I've been taking Succubus, Blast Pistol, Agonizer and Haywire Grenades. Comes in at 105.
My cheapest HQ of choice, since I believe everyone with BS5+ should have some kind of devastating firepower sidearm.

The 6" range of the blast pistol has always put me off. Especially now with 2d6 charge and fleet I find it hardly get's used. Not to mention with the addition of plasma grenades, the succubus always has something to use that BS for.

In you experience is it really that useful?

Don't have the dex on me right now, but isn't Blast Pistol 12"? Sorry if I'm wrong...

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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Fri Jul 20 2012, 10:02

tlronin wrote:

Don't have the dex on me right now, but isn't Blast Pistol 12"? Sorry if I'm wrong...
no. Dex pg 96 summary, blast pistol 6" s8 ap2 pistol, lance

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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Fri Jul 20 2012, 10:21

Thnx. Ah crap, then I owe a friend an apology. Embarassed

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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Sun Jul 22 2012, 08:12

Mushkilla wrote:
HEROBEAR wrote:
So far, I've been taking Succubus, Blast Pistol, Agonizer and Haywire Grenades. Comes in at 105.
My cheapest HQ of choice, since I believe everyone with BS5+ should have some kind of devastating firepower sidearm.

The 6" range of the blast pistol has always put me off. Especially now with 2d6 charge and fleet I find it hardly get's used. Not to mention with the addition of plasma grenades, the succubus always has something to use that BS for.

In you experience is it really that useful?

I think a grenade is a bit of a waste for BS 6, and that the blast pistol is not quite as good as it was in 5th, but it's still pretty good.

It used to give you a chance to stun or immobilise a dreadnought before assaulting it, so that you could place haywires on 4s instead of 6s (or maybe even destroy it with the shot). The way grenades are used now makes that kind of unnecessary.

It's also a chance to kill a transport and assault the guys disembarking from it. You'll get Overwatched, but that's better than being simply shot at next turn.

And if you roll a 6 when shooting it, it's a chance to take out a character or a special weapon or someone else you don't like before the assault.

I dunno if that's worth 15 points, but isn't that the same as a plasma pistol? Ours may be half the range, but it doesn't blow up in your face half the time.
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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Sun Jul 22 2012, 09:09

Thanks for the reasoning on the blaster.

Barking Agatha wrote:

I think a grenade is a bit of a waste for BS 6

Well it's free and a blast that scatters 2d6-6 is pretty nice.

Just my thoughts on power axes.

Power axe (against T4 WS6 and under characters)
1.33 wounds on the charge due to the termies 5++
1 wounds on the charge against a 4++.
0.66 wounds on the charge against a 3++.

Power axe (against T5 WS6 and under characters)
0.88 wounds on the charge due to the termies 5++
0.66 wounds on the charge against a 4++.
0.44 wounds on the charge against a 3++.

But you strike last so you have to survive a round of combat so when comparing it to the venom blade (striking first) then you need to take into account two rounds of combat (a venom blade character surviving a round of combat fights in two rounds, a power axe character has to survive two rounds to fight two rounds, if that makes sense).

venom blade (against T4 WS6 and under characters)
1.01 wounds (11 attacks) on a 2+ character with a 5++.
1.01 wounds (11 attacks) on a 2+ character with a 4++.
1.01 wounds (11 attacks) on a 2+ character with a 3++.

venom blade (against T5 WS6 and under characters)
1.01 wounds (11 attacks) on a 2+ character with a 5++.
1.01 wounds (11 attacks) on a 2+ character with a 4++.
1.01 wounds (11 attacks) on a 2+ character with a 3++.

So in my opinion power axes are not a great choice.

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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Sun Jul 22 2012, 09:51

I'm not really sure how you get that result with the venom blade. When I do it I get 0.56 wounds with the blade with a 2+ save. So the power axe may still be a bit awful but it's not infitely worse than the venom blade.

Btw, my calculations with the VB for a charging archon.
6*2/3=4 4*5/6=3.33 3.33*1/6=0.556.

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PostSubject: Re: Your Archon's/Succubus' Loadout   Sun Jul 22 2012, 10:01

Lord Clazaryn wrote:
I'm not really sure how you get that result with the venom blade. When I do it I get 0.56 wounds with the blade with a 2+ save. So the power axe may still be a bit awful but it's not infitely worse than the venom blade.

Btw, my calculations with the VB for a charging archon.
6*2/3=4 4*5/6=3.33 3.33*1/6=0.556.

I probably wasn't clear enough. I'll try explaining it again. In order to use your axe you have to survive a round of your enemies attacks. With the venom blade you strike first so you don't have to survive a round of attacks to use it.

Attack = A , Defence = D

Venom blade: ADA
Power axe: DA

With the venom blade you only need to survive one round of attacks in order to attack twice, on the other hand with the axe you need to survive two rounds of attacks in order to attack twice. Therefore for the same amount of risk the venom blade is more effective, as you get two rounds (and therefore 11 attacks, hence the difference between our calculations). Of course this pans out the longer the combat, in a 4 round combat it would be:

ADADADA
DADADA

So 4 rounds of attacks compared to 3 rounds of attack (the axe gaining the advantage as the fight draws on).

Does that make more sense?

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