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StaticVortex
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PostSubject: Unit conherency    Tue Jul 17 2012, 19:02

I am looking for clarification on unit coherency:

Pg 3 details that models must be with 2" of another model in the same unit, and pg 39 details rules that a IC must remain more than 2" away from a unit that it has not joined.

Question that has come up is: can two units of troops be closer than 2" of each other?

I think not, that the implication is if you cannot join the unit, then you cannot be within 2" of it. However, I cannot find anywhere in the rulebook that states this.

edit - My POV is that pg 3 which states that every model must be within 2" of another model in the same unit answers the question. The key words being "SAME UNIT".


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mukslinger
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PostSubject: Re: Unit conherency    Tue Jul 17 2012, 19:56

IC's who have not joined a unit are unique, they that have that limitation for two reasons: first as a thematic point, if they want to go it alone, then they stand alone. Second, for your opponant to easily recognize that he is not part of another unit and is by himself.

No other unit, to my knowledge, has that limitation. Anything that isn't a solitaire ic can be within 2" of another unit, if you want them too.

To answer the question: yes, two units of troops can be closer than 2" of each other.
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StaticVortex
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PostSubject: Re: Unit conherency    Tue Jul 17 2012, 20:16

So I could have a unit of Kabalites AND a unit of wyches intermingled within each other as long as they are within 2" of the units they are with? Theryby conferring a coversave to each other and limiting what could actually be killed due to line of sight issues?

Mind you, I disagree with this example, but I could see how it can be exploited in that way.

Like this:

K W K W K
W K W K W
K W K W K
W K W K W

Fleshing that out...given wound allocation rules and line of fire...In the above example, if you shot head on at the unit of Wyches, only two would die..regardless of the number of wounds, since the wounds are applied to the unit starting at the closest. After the first two die, there are no Wyches on the front line, only Kabalites...and since the wounds cannot be applied to a different unit, they would simply absorb the shots leaving the rest of the wyches unharmed


All seems against the intent of the game to me.

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mukslinger
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PostSubject: Re: Unit conherency    Tue Jul 17 2012, 20:49

edited, one of my posts got ate so i just combined them in this one.

yes you can intermingle/ checkerboard.

In 5th, it did not give a cover save to each unit, it used to, it was common, they faq'd it. here is the old faq:
Q: Who gets the 4+ cover save for intervening models
when two units are intermingled? (p21)
A: The unit with the model closest to the enemy that is
firing does not have a cover save.

Now this is 6th, and we do not have a brb faq, so it's back! Although, you also give a cover save to your enemy. If they shoot at you, both your units get 5+ cover. If you shoot at him, his units get a 5+ cover. Lets not forget about focus fire. I would expect the 5th faq to return, much like many old faq's remained for the codex's. But without a faq, cover saves for intermingled units is fair play once again! enjoy.

If you shoot at the wyches, once the front line of wyches are gone, it goes to the next line of wyches, skiping over the kabalites all together. Remember you shot at the wych unit, not the kabalite unit. It's not the closest model, it's the closest model in the unit you are attacking.


Last edited by mukslinger on Tue Jul 17 2012, 22:02; edited 3 times in total
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Ben_S
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PostSubject: Re: Unit conherency    Tue Jul 17 2012, 21:59

@StaticVortex wrote:

edit - My POV is that pg 3 which states that every model must be within 2" of another model in the same unit answers the question. The key words being "SAME UNIT".

Saying you must be within 2" of another model from the same unit does not imply that you cannot be within 2" of a model from another unit. With ICs it's important to make clear they haven't joined the unit, but this doesn't apply to other units. So you can do this:

K - W - K - W - K

(K = Kabalite; W = Wych) So long as the gaps between K and K and between W and W are 2". What you can't do is:

K [2"] W [2"] K etc, since then the Kabalites would be 5" apart (inc the 1" W base). So the two intermingled units will have to be bunched tightly together.

@mukslinger wrote:

if you shoot at the wyches, once the front line of wyches are gone, it goes ot the next line of wyches, skiping over the kabalites all together. remember you shot at the wych unit, not the kabalite unit. its not the closest model, its the closest model in the unit you are attacking.

This.
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mukslinger
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PostSubject: Re: Unit conherency    Tue Jul 17 2012, 22:20

Although, you might be thinking of the "out of sight" rule.

That would be difficult to apply to something like infantry checkerboards. It is highly likely at least one of the firing models could see some part of a target model even if it's behind a few rows of other infantry. it's not like being behind a landraider or wall or something, where the model can be completly obscured 100%.

if you can see part of a leg or something you can shoot it.
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