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 Scout Sniper Distraction

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foeofnight
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PostSubject: Scout Sniper Distraction   Wed Jul 11 2012, 18:00

Hey all,

Looking for a little bit of insight from all you players that have a space marine codex.

I have always enjoyed the space marine scout sniper models and rules. SGT Tellion and snipers and maybe some missle launchers just sound like a bad day to me.

I was curious, with the new changes to sniper rifles, do you think an army with mostly space marine scout models would be a semi-competitive army?

Troups: Scouts with sniper/missle launcher
Fast Attack: Land speeders or maybe bikes?
Fill in the rest with maybe the new stormtalon and a small group of actual space marines?

Thoughts would be much appreciated
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Scout Sniper Distraction   Wed Jul 11 2012, 18:16

It might work in smaller games. I think where you'd struggle would be that marines are kind of designed to work with power armour in mind, so a scout force above a certain size would struggle as it's less resilient. That being said, the use of two FOC's above 2000 pts would probably help to balance it out.

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foeofnight
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PostSubject: Re: Scout Sniper Distraction   Wed Jul 11 2012, 18:28

Well dont scouts with camo cloaks get plus one to cover?

-Stealth stacks now so unit with tellion should be able to get a 3++ cover.
-If I work in a few ways to bolster some ruins my units would be sitting on maybe even 2++?

And I agree I think that going higher up I would need some power armor backup. Was thinking to have a force centered around the scouts with maybe some deep striking / drop podding elements just to get a fluffy yet competitive feel.

How are the thunderfire cannons looking now days with the new artillery rules?
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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Scout Sniper Distraction   Wed Jul 11 2012, 19:09

I like thundercannons now. Since the new artillary rules are out, that means its T7 w/ a 2+ if you put the techmarine infront. On top of that with the changes to the blast template it makes it decent against light armor. I still think the pred is the best choice for AI/AT in your HS, but its not too bad considering

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Scout Sniper Distraction   Wed Jul 11 2012, 21:55

Not sure whether stealth from Tellion would stack with stealth from the scouts for a 5+ cover save, the rule says that cover saves from the shrouded and stealth special rules are cumulative, not that stealth stacks with stealth. Tellion is just part of that unit for all purposes, and the special rules states that a unit with at least one model with this rule counts its cover saves as being 1 point better than normal. Similarly shrouded counts 2 points better than normal. so by giving scouts camo cloaks, you're effectively giving them the stealth rule, and you only need 1 model to have it to benefit, so I'd say either attach Tellion, or give them camo cloaks, no point doing both since he's not an independent character so can't leave them anyway.

On the plus side though, sniper rifles just got a whole hell of a lot better, with 6's to hit meaning you can allocate to whichever model you choose, and rolls to wound of 6 counting as AP2. I've always liked snipers...

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foeofnight
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PostSubject: Re: Scout Sniper Distraction   Wed Jul 11 2012, 22:45

Well the catch is that they FaQ'd camo cloaks. It now says in the space marine FaQ that camo cloaks give +1 to cover. And stealth reads the same making them stack for a +2 cover.

Better yet stick them in the ageis defense line for a 2++ cover save and use tellion to fire the gun with his great BS. Plus as I understand his ability confirs to the gun he is firing making it so he can get 4 precision shots a turn on the target of his choice :p sounds like fun to me.

Whatever I decide I think I will be taking that combo for starters with 10 snipers in the defense line and will begin to build around that idea
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Scout Sniper Distraction   Wed Jul 11 2012, 23:38

i think the issue is that camo cloak gives +1 to your cover save, but as i said, stealth only gives you +1 to your normal cover save. As such, and if you were playing me, I'd argue that if you've got camo cloaks your cover save is augmented by 1, and the stealth special rule only increases your normal cover save by 1, so there's no difference and it's only a +1, not +2. If they FAQ it I'm happy to be corrected, but that's how I see it.

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foeofnight
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PostSubject: Re: Scout Sniper Distraction   Thu Jul 12 2012, 04:12

Stealth: "A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule (SGT Tellion) counts its cover save as one point better than normal. Note that this means that a model with the stealth special rule always has a cover save of at least 6+"

Camo Cloaks:" A model wearing a camo cloak has +1 cover save"

Direct wording out of the books.

So if my normal cover save without tellion is 6++ from the cloaks that is normal. Add tellion who has stealth and he adds 1 point better than normal. This should equal a total of plus 2.

Or if you would rather apply the other way. Stealth makes the normal a 6+ and the cloaks just add +1 on top of that. Giving a total of 5+

I guess I am just not seeing any wiggle room as to where they dont stack now based on the new wordings?
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