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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrake outflank question   Fri Jul 13 2012, 18:50

regardless, you can still toss a haem in with a group of mandrakes, you just have to think about what your doing. Deploy your haem alone during your deployment phase, in an area where the mandrakes could also deploy to. When it comes time to deploy your mandrakes, deploy them with the haem. Problem solved, pain token for the mandrakes and probably a liquifier as well... Wink

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrake outflank question   Fri Jul 13 2012, 19:58

@Ruke wrote:
regardless, you can still toss a haem in with a group of mandrakes, you just have to think about what your doing. Deploy your haem alone during your deployment phase, in an area where the mandrakes could also deploy to. When it comes time to deploy your mandrakes, deploy them with the haem. Problem solved, pain token for the mandrakes and probably a liquifier as well... Wink

True. But the point is whether or not you can outflank with the haemi+mandrakes, which is potentially far more useful (and really, the only way in which I would consider taking them as part of a consistent strategy). Granted, the prevalence of night-fighting might make what you are suggesting a little more viable.
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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrake outflank question   Fri Jul 13 2012, 20:04

Well, the mandrakes would confer their stealth on the haem, so the entire squad would have 3-4+ cover saves (depending on the terrain) and would start off with baleblast, a squad of 10 would be just around 150 points, so it's not a terrible investment overall...

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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrake outflank question   Sat Jul 14 2012, 08:51

@Ruke wrote:
regardless, you can still toss a haem in with a group of
mandrakes, you just have to think about what your doing. Deploy your
haem alone during your deployment phase, in an area where the mandrakes
could also deploy to. When it comes time to deploy your mandrakes,
deploy them with the haem. Problem solved, pain token for the mandrakes
and probably a liquifier as well... Wink

@tlronin wrote:
Hhmm... Is the unit an Outflanker because it deploys outflanking. Is the unit Infiltrators because it deploys infiltrating. Or does none of this matter because it has the Infiltrate USR, so it's an Infiltrator, period.

We are inclined to lean to the underlined conclusion and I can see it too. I can see it otherwise too though, mind you, but... I'm convinced now of the latter.

Therefor no heamy with mandrakes as per the USR Infiltrator.

read


Edited out unnecessary hostility - Baron T

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PostSubject: Re: Mandrake outflank question   Sat Jul 14 2012, 20:15

@ruke+krayd: Yup, what Enfernux said. We just came to the conclusion Mandrakes are Infiltrators wether they deploy infiltrating or not. So you can't join ICs to them. So, no heamy either. Alas.

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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrake outflank question   Sat Jul 14 2012, 23:31

Yes, but you're not deploying them together in my scenario. You deploy the haem, then you deploy the mandrakes. You deploy them separately, thus skirting the rule that you cant deploy a non-infiltrating IC with an infiltrating unit. All you have to do is have the IC within 2" of the squad in order to have him join them.

So no, you can't deploy a haem with mandrakes, HOWEVER, you are more than capable of having a haem join them before the first turn.

@Enfernux: Stop getting snippy, I've noticed you've had a very poor attitude since you joined this forum.


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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrake outflank question   Sun Jul 15 2012, 00:03

I just cant realise mandrakes being deployed using their USR, and within 2" of a haemi, sorry...like on the other table edge, usually 9" from your dep zone...in it they will be shot up, out of it, i dont se a haem getting near them.
@Ruke, sorry bout that, but thats just the way i am. Could someone translate snippy pls? Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Mandrake outflank question   Sun Jul 15 2012, 00:10

Don't want to disappoint you, but the BRB says: 'An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment.' So, while in theory the Heamy could join a unit of Mandrakes by being deployed in coherency with them he is clearly forbidden to do so. First legal option is to join them during turn 1. Not a big difference, but they don't get FNP during your opponent's turn, if you go second.

*emphasis by me

@Enfernux: Snippy means epés.
(hope that's the right translation)

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PostSubject: Re: Mandrake outflank question   Sun Jul 15 2012, 00:37

Ok, that's fair enough, and it really doesn't make much of a difference. Just put them either out of sight, or put the mandrakes in front of the haem so that you cant draw los on him, and rely on the 'drakes stealth on turn 1 to keep them alive... top of your turn you're good to go.

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PostSubject: Re: Mandrake outflank question   Sun Jul 15 2012, 13:57

Thanks Tiri Smile
Ruke, i may be, but i was right none the less, and when i am not, i do say its my bad and wonder off to eat a donut bounce

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PostSubject: Re: Mandrake outflank question   Mon Jul 16 2012, 10:00

@Ruke: For clarrification, I didn't know you meant that by the way. Joining an IC (like a heamy) with a squad of Mandrakes áfter deployment (so in turn 1, 2, etc...) is perfectly fine ofcourse. The rule specifically mentions 'during deployment' so, I thought you meant that.

@Enfernux: How's the donut? Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Mandrake outflank question   Sun Sep 30 2012, 13:40

One thing that makes me wonder is that according to the Space Wolf FAQ both independent characters and wolf guards can join outflanking wolf scouts... I think that pretty much answers the question once and for all (or so I hope), concidering that NONE of their IC have the Infiltrate USR.
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrake outflank question   Sun Sep 30 2012, 13:45

@Shinobi_8745 wrote:
One thing that makes me wonder is that according to the Space Wolf FAQ both independent characters and wolf guards can join outflanking wolf scouts... I think that pretty much answers the question once and for all (or so I hope), concidering that NONE of their IC have the Infiltrate USR.

Good spot. Odd that it's hidden away in the SW FAQ though, rather than the BRB one, if it's supposed to apply to everyone. I suspect that, if you were to wheel this out in front of a rules lawyer, they may argue that the fact that this is only in the SW FAQ is because it's intended as a special exception to the normal rules...
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrake outflank question   Sun Sep 30 2012, 16:28

@Ben_S wrote:
@Shinobi_8745 wrote:
One thing that makes me wonder is that according to the Space Wolf FAQ both independent characters and wolf guards can join outflanking wolf scouts... I think that pretty much answers the question once and for all (or so I hope), concidering that NONE of their IC have the Infiltrate USR.

Good spot. Odd that it's hidden away in the SW FAQ though, rather than the BRB one, if it's supposed to apply to everyone. I suspect that, if you were to wheel this out in front of a rules lawyer, they may argue that the fact that this is only in the SW FAQ is because it's intended as a special exception to the normal rules...

Space Wolves getting special rules that don't apply to other Marine chapters? Never!! Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Mandrake outflank question   Tue Oct 02 2012, 23:53

Don't the scouts have outflank USR? I don't have their codex. Or do they just have infiltrate (ie are they only able to Outflank from their infiltrate USR)?

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PostSubject: Re: Mandrake outflank question   Wed Oct 03 2012, 08:16

They have the Scout USR which also confers outflank, but the thing I'm pointing towards is about the rulebook saying you can't deploy with units having the rule infiltrate unless the IC also have it, and if you'd ask me, keeping reserved units is not "deploying" the unit (but that matter can be discussed of course) and in my opinion the SW Scouts can't ignore the rule of infiltrate just because they chose to outflank via Scout USR.

For now I've presented this to the people at my club, showing them the SW FAQ and explaining the situation before making our lists, most people have agreed with me on this and have let me outflank the Mandrakes, the few others tell me to wait for the next FAQ just in case, which I gladly will if they wish me to.
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrake outflank question   Wed Oct 03 2012, 14:51

Good point

Please be more forthcoming with your responses, lest they be deleted as spam. Thx, Gob.
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