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 Hellions, are they worth it?

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knightswimmer14
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PostSubject: Hellions, are they worth it?   Wed Jul 04 2012, 16:08

Hey everyone, after reading alot on the forum ive heard hellions come up alot. Are they going to be our new cc unit with the baron? because they dont sound to bad, able to deep strike, spliner pod, the assult jump rule, jinx special, and S4 in cc. The only thing im concerned about is their survivability in cc, having the same stat line as wyches (WS4 and T3) but with out the dodge rule. What do you guys think?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions, are they worth it?   Wed Jul 04 2012, 16:17

T3 and 5+ save is not really survivable. They will take casualties from overwatch on the way in and from assault whilst in combat. Hit & Run seems to have taken a hit too as you presumably are subject to another burst of overwatch when you charge back in (unless the target unit is already locked in combat).

On the plus side, they now get to shoot with splinter pods before assaulting so they can hopefully thin the ranks a little.

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Venkh
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions, are they worth it?   Wed Jul 04 2012, 17:20

I have always thought they were great especially with the baron

They could always shoot before assault and with a pain token 15 were putting out 30 18" poison shots and then 45 s5 attacks before the enemy got to swIng

That's before you factor in drugs which could grant rerolls extra strength or extra attacks

Now they get another attack on the charge from their boards

So I think they are quite good
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Ben_S
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions, are they worth it?   Wed Jul 04 2012, 17:23

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Hit & Run seems to have taken a hit too as you presumably are subject to another burst of overwatch when you charge back in (unless the target unit is already locked in combat).

Good point - ouch. But presumably they also get Hammer of Wrath each time they charge back in too. They could be pretty useful against enemies with little shooting (not just low BS, but cases like Genestealers or Wracks).
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Gobsmakked
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions, are they worth it?   Wed Jul 04 2012, 17:46

@Ben_S wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
Hit & Run seems to have taken a hit too as you presumably are subject to another burst of overwatch when you charge back in (unless the target unit is already locked in combat).

Good point - ouch. But presumably they also get Hammer of Wrath each time they charge back in too. .....

Good point yourself Ben. I'm not fussed by Overwatch myself, opponents will always get a lucky shot or two, maybe three, but I think that we will thin them out just as much and more often than not I figure my assault will be fine.

I agree with Venkh and Ben_S, I think Hellions will rock for us.
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Grumpy Kwi
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions, are they worth it?   Wed Jul 04 2012, 18:00

One thing I noticed about Hellions when compared to wyches was that the Hellions shoot better than them (twice as much and farther) and they hit harder. Between the shooting and the S4 plus whatever drug they may have (and hopefully grenades) they will kill more than wyches - and hopefully that will ease both the overwatch shots and the strike backs.

Sure, wyches will tarpit and haywire better but when you compare the two they are really different in their styles so I think Hellions combined with wyches (not just one or the other) would compliment each other nicely. Hellions, scourges or bikes and even beasts can screen wyches coming out of a portal (and my dual Talos) so high mobility troops that do not need a transport are going to make my lists for sure.

Try them out and see for yourself!

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Cobra7fac
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions, are they worth it?   Wed Jul 04 2012, 18:13

Sorry, but where does it say Hellions have Jink?
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forest90
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions, are they worth it?   Wed Jul 04 2012, 20:49

everyone seems to be so worried about the over watch rule. ITS a new factor but not a reliable one. you need 6s just to hit, then you still need a roll to wound. granted their only t3 but over watch is not going to be a big factor if your wittling down units before charging. only a fool would charge a large volume of firepower. and that didnt matter 5th/6ed.
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Leomun
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions, are they worth it?   Wed Jul 04 2012, 21:07

@Cobra7fac wrote:
Sorry, but where does it say Hellions have Jink?

I don't think they do. Jump Infantry get Hammer of Wrath on the charge and Bulky and Deep Strike, but I can't find Jink anywhere.
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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions, are they worth it?   Wed Jul 04 2012, 21:09

They don't. Only jetbikes (and fast skimmers) do. You can get them a 6+ coversave against overwatch with the PLG tho. All in all, Hellions still seem pretty good. Overwatch hurts them somewhat, but they can thin down enemies quite well with their splinter pods, then charge in (and if you didn't move over 6'', do an extra hit at i10. It's only s3, but if you have a big blob of em, that's still a lot of hits).

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Godreas
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions, are they worth it?   Thu Jul 05 2012, 00:49

Helions now are worth more in 6th ed, in my opinion before they were just a mobile blob which could dish out a decent ammount of shots, tie up small squads in CC and capture objectives. Now they seem quite potent with the attacks they recieve in CC at I10.
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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions, are they worth it?   Thu Jul 05 2012, 04:27

Do they still need a PGL? It seems to me that only the HoW is at I10 and everything else is at I1 if you charge through cover, unless you have a pgl...

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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions, are they worth it?   Thu Jul 05 2012, 08:00

I think they still need it. They have no grenades without it, and it gives them stealth against shots that come from closer than 8'' away (good against overwatch). Baron comes with the PLG as standard anyway, and most of the time when people run Hellions, they also run Baron.

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions, are they worth it?   Fri Jul 06 2012, 06:26

no grenades = I1 still

Also remember that jump infanty can either move 12" in the movement, or get re-rollable 2d6 assault and hammer of wrath attacks. not both.

Now remember we can still move 12, and then re-roll becuase of fleet, but no hammer attacks.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions, are they worth it?   Fri Jul 06 2012, 23:04

I think the 6th rules have really differentiated between assault units, we've got wyches that are now better at killing tanks, and hellions are more effective on the charge. I think the stunclaw is a good option too now, since you can strip out the independent character from a squad, thus cunningly removing a potential 2+ save that can potentially affect the damage you can inflict by taking saves Watch him try and save all the hits resolved from a large squad of hellions!

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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions, are they worth it?   Fri Jul 06 2012, 23:59

Hellions under Baron are great. Why?

Hey, they are troops. Single "reliable" troop choice in our codex! Cos shoot out deathstar of 20 Hellions isn't easy task anyway, if you use anti-blast formations of course. They also don't need freaking transports, and now they can benefit from allied Jetseer. Btw, they can do 40 poison shots - as 3.3 infamous Venoms! THEN charge and give another 60... or 80 if you rolled the proper drug... or 100 attacks if you use HoW (20 of them are S3, and it isn't good).

Huge amount of dices work against every target. And you can use Jetseer to augment their killing ability to such heights that even Paladins with Draigo wouldn't be happy to meet them face-to-face.

But it's a Deathstar and all -cons also applied to them.
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O.S.P.
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions, are they worth it?   Sat Jul 07 2012, 01:06

I mentioned this on another topic, but I think Hellions, under the new rule set, have become a really interesting tactical choice. Hellions have always been good harassing units. Now, they can have your opponent throwing his dice at you.

Cool new tactical possibilities range with Overwatch. A large blob of Hellions now can dump 40 (assuming max) poison shots at 18". As someone mentioned before, it's a dice game. You throw enough dice, people start dying. With the addition of Overwatch, it gives you the possibility of waiting for assaulting units to come to you. Pump 40 poison shots into them per turn during the shooting phase. If they assault you, dump 40 more shots at them, use PGLs to take away their extra attack, and probably strike before them with our high initiative. Use Hit and Run at your discretion to get out of combat. Rinse and repeat until you cash in a pain token. Outpacing and kiting should be even easier with random charge rolls.

The Stunclaw now has the interesting effect of setting yourself up for a one-sided duel. If you snatch and opponent's IC and run like hell have the Helliarch or Baron challenge him to a duel. Because he's all by his lonesome, your IC gets a re-roll of their choice per every 5 men in your squad. Glorious intervention allows you to swap in another character for the current duelist. Snatch the IC, challenge to duel, drag toward a melee powerhouse (like Drazhar or Vect), then use glorious intervention to force their IC to go toe-to-toe with your melee juggernaut. Then, drink the tears of your opponent. I can't wait to start snatching up Sanguine Priests and bringing them to their doom.

Granted, a lot of these tactics will depend on the right moment to strike. But that's usually what makes DEldar so fun to play.
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