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 NOVA Open 6th Edition

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: NOVA Open 6th Edition   Mon Jul 02 2012, 16:24

So with NOVA almost right around the corner, and with them playing in the new 6th edition format, my list I planned to take isnt as good as I hoped. Now here is my first attempt at updating my list.

145- Archon w/ Power Axe, Shadowfield, Combat Drugs, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Haywires
153- 4 Incubi; venom w/ Extra Cannon
141- 3 Trueborn w/ 2 Dark Lances; Raider
141- 3 Trueborn w/ 2 Dark Lances; Raider
125- 5 Warriors w/ Blaster; Venom w/ Extra Cannon
125- 5 Warriors w/ Blaster; Venom w/ Extra Cannon
125- 5 Warriors w/ Blaster; Venom w/ Extra Cannon
125- 5 Warriors w/ Blaster; Venom w/ Extra Cannon
125- 5 Warriors w/ Blaster; Venom w/ Extra Cannon
125- 5 Warriors w/ Blaster; Venom w/ Extra Cannon
115- Ravager w/ Flickerfields
155- Void Raven w/ Flickerfields
155- Void Raven w/ Flickerfields

Allies:
178- Farseer w/ Jetbike, Spirit Stones, Runes of Warding, Fortune, Doom, Spear
66- 3 GJB

Total: 1999 pts

So here is my reasoning for taking each options:

HQ: Ok, here is where most of the contention is going to be with this list. I do believe DE got a huge nerf in CC with only AP3 special weapons, but with a power axe and a 2++ he should be able to charge in and win any challenge I can get him into, even going at I1. On top of that if I can fortune him (as he isnt exactly an Eldar unit) he will be unstopable, and I would run him solo up against a TH/SS termie unit just to tie them up for the rest of the game.

Elites: Incubi are up there as a ??? in 6th, but I still find them viable. Their job was always chew up MEQ, and here is no different. Add in the Archon to punish any 2+ squad leaders (wolf guards Im looking at you) and these Incubi should be able to walk through most units. Adding a 3+ re-rollable (see HQ for details) I should be save from too much attacks back.

Blasterborn to me seem to be less important, as a rhino no longer takes a ton of shots to kill. So I have gone from quanity to quality. have these sit in the backfield and just fire away. Their raiders are for extra lances, as well as picking up any units that drop due to a wrecked venom. Good for LOS blocking as well

Troops: Tried and true, nothing has changed

HS: The bombers will be key in this game imho. With us only having 2 AA units, the bomber is the better of the two. On top of that it can shoot its lances and still drop the mine, both of which got a huge boost. Flickerfields stay on so it doesnt have to dodge incase it does get shot.

Ive also kept 1 Ravager for some more T1 dark matter, as well as to help with the 2+ problem I forsee in the future. Also I do expect Rhino Rush to be still very powerful, so popping some tanks open early helps my venoms get into something they can chew on T1.

Allies: Now here is the abligatory Psychic Defense. Also with doom and maybe fortune (see HQ for my comments on that) he will be a valuable asset to my army.

The GJBs arent just there for the mantatory 1 troop for allies, they provide not only a sorta strong bunker for my farseer, but with you now only being able to score out of tanks, these troop jetbikes will be needed for a last turn contest or capture. Also being so mobile they can get that Farseer to where he needs, which is a major boon for him.

Weds will be my first time trying this list, and my first game of 6th as well. Hopefully I can provide you guys with some experiences after then, but until then Q@C are always welcome.

Edit: Fixed Farseer point value and switched the TB venoms to raider to compensate


Last edited by Shadows Revenge on Tue Jul 24 2012, 19:11; edited 1 time in total
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Farmer
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA Open 6th Edition   Thu Jul 05 2012, 07:13

Looks pretty solid to me.

If the Incubi and Archon don't perform well maybe consider the Baron and his dogs.

Keep us posted on how this Venom list does.
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA Open 6th Edition   Thu Jul 05 2012, 10:22

Very nice, just one thing:
you cant fortune anything else, then pure Eldar. So no, you cant fortune the archon. Other than that: Lanceborn, quantity for quality...i like that Smile

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PostSubject: Re: NOVA Open 6th Edition   Fri Jul 06 2012, 06:50

so played my first game today against your normal 5th ed SW longfang razorspam list. It was a close match and I won by 1 VP. a few observations Ive notice:

challenges are OP:
Sadly no one will ever accept it from a tooled up Archon. The reason the challenge system works in fantasy is the closed list. Being an open list, no one will ever accept the challenge from him, which is a blessing and a curse at the same time. I will have to play more games and see, but it really helps when the sargie cant attack back Razz

Venomspam is still very much viable:
Needing to get out of tanks to capture objectives is huge, and with venoms we can chew though any unit. Also there is no worry about 2 HPs, as one or two shots that got through our flickerfields killed our venoms anyway. In fact the ability to be able to shoot after being glanced is huge.

Flyers soak down a ton of shots:
3 turns of 2 riflemen and 3 longfangs took down 2 planes. Thats pretty nice as all that fire wasnt on my venoms. In fact I would say that them soaking up so much shots let me win the game. Huge thing infact.

Assault is not dead:
A well time assault could change anything. My Archon whiped everything he touched, and even took 2 hull points off a dread at the end. Overwatch didnt really bother me with my 3+ save from the incubi, and as long as you can go through their armor, you can chew up into them. I dont see wyches being good against anything that can shoot back at them, but if used right (as a dual assault, tieing up TH/SS termies and anything that cant shoot back, haywiring vehicles) but even against your basic tact squad, wyches can still be used effectively.

I will play another game this coming weekend, but overall its pretty weird edition. Things are almost completely new, and its not like 4th-5th where things were almost identical. We need to learn how to use our units effectively, even more so now.

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PostSubject: Re: NOVA Open 6th Edition   Fri Jul 06 2012, 15:23

Interesting results. I had been thinking about how I would handle enemy fliers if I didn't have any of my own. My first instinct was to fight the urge to fire everything at them and simply ignore them for as long as I could to better focus on objectives. Sounds like this guy should have done the same! Razz

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PostSubject: Re: NOVA Open 6th Edition   Fri Jul 06 2012, 16:31

the same thing hit me. Are flyers really that important? Sure... they provide a great dynamic for us. But Seriously all they can do is kill 2 vehicles a turn (1 with lances, 1 with void mine) Im really starting to wonder if I should even worry about flyers at all, and just do the traditional 3x ravagers. I guess more playtesting must be done.

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PostSubject: Re: NOVA Open 6th Edition   Fri Jul 06 2012, 17:08

@Shadows Revenge wrote:
the same thing hit me. Are flyers really that important? Sure... they provide a great dynamic for us. But Seriously all they can do is kill 2 vehicles a turn (1 with lances, 1 with void mine) Im really starting to wonder if I should even worry about flyers at all, and just do the traditional 3x ravagers. I guess more playtesting must be done.

but as you said, they soak a ton of shots. And if these shot are not fired upon our venoms, it is perfect
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA Open 6th Edition   Sat Jul 07 2012, 03:18

How did the Power Axe work for you? Does going at a low Initiative actually help sometimes, to let your Incubi kill their things, then let just the Archon Pile-In? Were 4 Incubi enough to do their work? I'm really stoked for the Doom/Fortuneseer: did the Guardian Jetbikes get anything done, or were they just a wound sink? Would Reavers do more, being able to take Blasters? And for the Voidraven- 2 vehicles a turn seems pretty good, considering many people are dropping their vehicle counts. I'm not gonna dissemble: this is my kind of list. I really want Incubi to be worth it, and to shove fliers in my enemy's faces, and to gang up on a Doomed target with a swarm of Warriors. My plan for fliers is to mix and match between Voidravens and Lance Razorwings, and Dissie Razorwings, with the current lineup being 2 Dissie Razors and 1 Voidraven.

Fortunately/Unfortunately, it looks like no double detachment for NOVA, so 3 Fliers+3Ravagers won't be possible.

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PostSubject: Re: NOVA Open 6th Edition   Sat Jul 07 2012, 05:15

The one thing i would suggest is that it maybe a good idea to throw a shurikan cannon on one of the Gjet bikes. Three strength 6 shots for 10 points is pretty good IMO.
I like the list alot! I hope you do well!
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA Open 6th Edition   Sat Jul 07 2012, 06:17

@Bibitybopitybacon wrote:
The one thing i would suggest is that it maybe a good idea to throw a shurikan cannon on one of the Gjet bikes. Three strength 6 shots for 10 points is pretty good IMO.
I like the list alot! I hope you do well!
Where would he trim 10pts though? Combat drugs on the Archon? I love these and hate to suggest removing them for Shuriken Cannon, but it is a must have.

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PostSubject: Re: NOVA Open 6th Edition   Sat Jul 07 2012, 07:20

@Evil Space Elves wrote:
@Bibitybopitybacon wrote:
The one thing i would suggest is that it maybe a good idea to throw a shurikan cannon on one of the Gjet bikes. Three strength 6 shots for 10 points is pretty good IMO.
I like the list alot! I hope you do well!
Where would he trim 10pts though? Combat drugs on the Archon? I love these and hate to suggest removing them for Shuriken Cannon, but it is a must have.
Maybe switch one of the blasters for a shredder? I'm mot even sure if it's a good idea, and I wouldn't try it in a Tlist, but with the new changes to blast rules and glancing hits, it maybe worth giving one a try since you will see fewer vehicles and will need fewer darklight shots to kill them.
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA Open 6th Edition   Sat Jul 07 2012, 15:22

@CaptainBalroga wrote:
How did the Power Axe work for you? Does going at a low Initiative actually help sometimes, to let your Incubi kill their things, then let just the Archon Pile-In? Were 4 Incubi enough to do their work? I'm really stoked for the Doom/Fortuneseer: did the Guardian Jetbikes get anything done, or were they just a wound sink? Would Reavers do more, being able to take Blasters? And for the Voidraven- 2 vehicles a turn seems pretty good, considering many people are dropping their vehicle counts. I'm not gonna dissemble: this is my kind of list. I really want Incubi to be worth it, and to shove fliers in my enemy's faces, and to gang up on a Doomed target with a swarm of Warriors. My plan for fliers is to mix and match between Voidravens and Lance Razorwings, and Dissie Razorwings, with the current lineup being 2 Dissie Razors and 1 Voidraven.

Fortunately/Unfortunately, it looks like no double detachment for NOVA, so 3 Fliers+3Ravagers won't be possible.

The power axe did amazingly well. I didnt run into anything with a 2+ save (he ran traditional razorspam wolf list, just to see if it was still viable) but being able to not be scared of anything was a really good feeling. I think I will stick with the axe until one of our weapons gets FAQed down to AP2.

4 Incubi w/ Archon has always seemed to be the sweet spot imho. charging a 10 man squad, they would lower them down to 2-3, he would fail, and then we were stuck in combat. The funny part is I lost 2 incubi before I even assaulted (he killed my venom early on) and then I lost 1 incubi in the first assault. After that the solo incubi and Archon went hand in hand through 2 more squads, only for both of them to get crushed by a dreadnaught Razz I find 4 is a decent number to stay in combat and finish during his turn, perfect time to start assauling Razz One thing I did realize is 3" consolidation is so short... I dont like that at all...

The guardian jetbikes tied up a squad of longfangs for the entire game when he charged them. overall they did nothing, but I also think it scared him that I would try and take his objective (worth 4 points) so he had to do something too them. Overall I think GJBs are a great addition for being able to last turn capture, something that our reavers can only last turn contest (unless you play the Scouring) which I doubt NOVA will have rulebook missions.

The flyers are interesting, but I still dont know if they are worth their points. I guess I will have to keep playing to decide. Sunday will be my next game.

As for the scurri cannon, I dont know where to get the points. I could drop 2 more venoms for 2 more raiders, but I really start to loose AI at that point, which is bad. Right now they have no purpose other than last turn capturing, and protecting the farseer. Both are great jobs for only 66 pts imho.
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA Open 6th Edition   Sat Jul 07 2012, 16:29

I see your point about the GJB cannon. In my CWE army I never leave home without them (classic S6 Eldar spam), but if you are using them primarily as objective grabbers and keeping them out of trouble the rest of the time, then the cannon is a luxury that your tight list cannot afford. I was honestly stumped as to how tight the list was when I tried to figure out what you could drop for the other 10pts. You've obviously done this sort of thing before Twisted Evil

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PostSubject: Re: NOVA Open 6th Edition   Mon Jul 09 2012, 17:11

So played two more games, Im really starting to get a hang of 6th.

First was a doubles game that had me teamed up with another DE player and against 2 SW players. My opponents were more fluffy style players, so it quickly game a slaughterfest as I slowly picked apart both opponent's armies. Incubi failed me again this game by failed charging a grey hunter squad, even with re-rolls (which they would of chewed through due to doom), and got caught by a thunderwolf lord charging across the map. I swear I really hate random charge distances...

Archon got into a 1 v 1 with Logan Grimnar, and we killed each other after 3 round of combat (he kept making 4++s, and when I finally got him to fail 3 in a row, I failed a powerfist to the face) Overall though it was a fun game, although I felt bad about how badly we beat them.

The second match was against my DE ally from the last match. He decided to use the same list he teamed up with me, which abused the dual force org at 2k. He had 5 5 man warrior squads in venoms, 4 4 man blasterborn in venoms, 2 naked haemies, and 4 ravagers. I must say he had an impressive number of dark matter shots, and Im glad NOVA will not be allowing dual force orgs, because I can see some abuse from it.

I will say DE are not the right army to use that dual force org though. At 2k he just didnt have enough troops to hold up with me. We got the Scouring, and neither of us had any FA slots, so that wasnt needed. Overall we ended up slaughtering each other, but I had dropped off 2 warrior squads in the beginning to capture two objectives on my side (a 4 and a 3) since he bunkered on the opposite side. I kept him on the side of the board that he bunkered up too, and harrased his back line with my ravager and 2 raiders. The rest of my warriors made a headlong dash into his venoms, and with the help of my void ravens coming in, were able to completely de-mech him by T4.

In the end I had my 2 raiders (he completely left them alone) 1 squad of lanceborn, 2 full 5 man warrior squads, 2 venoms, 2 void ravens, and my farseer left. I also had a lone warrior holding a 3 spot in his side, as he forgot that I ran him in a forest, where he just leaned up against a tree for 3 turns.

He had a squad of 4 blasterborn, and immobile venom, and 2 immoble ravagers left.

Overall I can say he just lost due to poor generalship and poor rolling. He had the makings to decimate my army (more darkmatter, more venom shots) but he just sat in the corner and tried to blow up my venoms with his 4x ravagers, which allowed me to pick off his troop choices, and then de-mech him so he couldnt contest anything.

Oh... and funny story. My archon died again ofc... This time to a failed LOS failed shadowfield on a overwatched blasterborn shot from a venom... who knew he could roll a six, and then I roll two 1s... FFS these rules really make assault difficult for us... Atleast he made his points back by slaughtering a squad of TB and his warlord hamie, and the Incubi actually did something this time!!! (killed TB, took down a venom, and then got revenge on the blasterborn that killed their lord before they got lanced to death from a immobile ravager)


Overall though I learned alot from these two games. The first was a slaughter, but it proves to me that the list can pretty much win on auto-pilot against your regular run-of-the-mill players. The second match showed me that assault definately hurts... although they provided me with a nice distraction as he focused too much on them. Also my flyers did the same thing as the first game, and just soaked up shots like no other. So far I am happy with this list, and dont know what I will change from here on out.

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