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 New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Tue Jun 26 2012, 17:44

@Grumpy Kwi wrote:
No, all this breaks my heart.

First it was Haemys and wyches living together, now this.

This allies thing is just another "spam" function for all to bastardize, man that is frustrating.

You newer players have at it, I can't shake all these years of not getting along to suddenly everyone is my friend. I am really evil but only sometimes, bah!

No fun here folks, move along, move along.

dont look so grim Kwi... Im not all that thrilled about having to work with those Craftworld dogs, but think about the possibilities... I mean an Autarch w/ a WWP army??? Maybe that will lighten up your mood Wink
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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Tue Jun 26 2012, 20:31

Tyranids are getting boned though... hope they get some really nice rules out of the ed., since (IMO) they got screwed over last ed.

Hopefully They'll get a new dex shortly that will make up for their lack of allies, and the shortcomings in their current dex.

I have to say that the change I really want to see is monstrous creatures armor saves counting as a invul save. As it stands now, moncreas are underpowered because of the proliferation of ap 1 and 2 weapons, and most dont have the T to make a stand against the high str those weapons bring to the table...

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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Tue Jun 26 2012, 20:58

I would use both my Zahr-Tann and Kabal of the Poisoned Tongue, with the Harlequins having concocted some sort of plan to bring them together.

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Allandrel
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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Tue Jun 26 2012, 21:33

Allies are hardly new, back in 2E you could spend up to 25% of your points on them. I don't remember if they were in the WD-published army lists for 1E or not. Rogue trader did not have army lists proper, it was more about GM-crafted scenarios.

I don't think Unique characters will be restricted. Such a restriction would go against Selling Models, and furthermore much of the narrative potential of allies comes from specific characters being forced to work together. "Duke Sliscus and Prince Yriel team up" sounds like the 40k equivalent of every Buddy Cop movie ever.
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CaptainBalroga
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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Tue Jun 26 2012, 21:57

One's a super pirate who gets the job done by doing things by the book!

"No no no! You have to tan the admiral's skin immediately after you flay it! Now what will I bind my Captain's Log in? GROX LEATHER? You have failed me for the last time!" *BANG*

The other is a rookie Prince who always plays by the rules: HIS rules!

"If you don't tell me where the Norn Queen's hiding I'm going to shove this spear so far up your spore vent that you're going to be walking funny for a millennium"

Now these two Desperate Allies must find a way to go beyond their Alliance of Convenience, learn a thing or two about each other, and save the Webway.

"Curse you, Yriel! Have you simpering Craftworlders strayed so far from your true heritage that you cannot understand the Eldar coming out of my mouth?"

"Duke, there isn't a sane Corsair out there that can understand the words coming out of your mouth!"

Coming This July: Battle Brothers*


*From the director of the smash hits "Stubbo: the First Ogryn Inquisitor" and "Big Trouble in Little Commorragh"


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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Tue Jun 26 2012, 22:19

Captain, that is one of the best things I have ever read. Laughing

I am dissapointed, though, that we can't ally with Tyranids, as that is far more fluffy than working with some factions of CSM, unless they put in the CSM Codex that Emperor's Children Can't ally with DE. Some of the combinations are just stupid, where others are a possibility. I suppose, though, that GW wants to sell more and that your one battle is just that rare occassion where your pointy ears don't get massacred by the friendly Daemonettes who just popped up and started ripping into your Ork enemies. Then, from the skies, Crimson Fists rain down and start killing your pointy ears, ignoring their vendetta against the green pointy ears.
It's just a little odd, although DEldar and CWE work.
I suppose, though, that not everybody that plays 40k is so preoccupied with fluff as I am.

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Siticus the Ancient
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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Tue Jun 26 2012, 22:40

I would disagree about Tyranids. They are all under the Hive Mind, thus always under their prime directive - devour. It would take some serious mental gymnastics to come up with circumstances in which DE could contain and control them. Using them in battle is really not nearly the same as using them in arenas as wych fodder, nor is it the same as having them sit in hexcages for the amusement of the archons.

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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Tue Jun 26 2012, 22:48

I do see your point, but I imagine that if they had been beaten enough within the Webway then they could learn to fear their pale, pointy eared captors. Tehn when unleashed upon the field of battle they would try their hardest to escape the previous threat, resulting in them nomming on the other side. That would be my explanation for it on tabletop, but for that to work you couldn't have a Synapse Creature, which of course you need, so it is still flawed.

Do you think that it would be possible for a Haemonculus to permanantly sever something like a Hive Tyrant from the Hive Mind and have its own synaptic link with the creature, so it would look up to it asits mother, like in Alien: Resurection?
It could work while in Commorragh, but then, I think, when taken back out into Realspace it would rebel, feeling the Hive Mind there to guide it again.

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Levitas
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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Tue Jun 26 2012, 23:06

Theres a Blood Angels novel where Fabius Bile has captured a Zoanthrope and is effectively controlling it, in addition to crafting mind control bugs under the skin.

Its possible a master Hemmy could achieve similar results. But we cant ally, so a moot point somewhat. Nids get no love from GW!

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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Tue Jun 26 2012, 23:10

That's quiet impressive, for a Mon-keigh.
I do feel sorry for 'Nids, though. They are so huggable, who wouldn't want to take them everywhere with their army?

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Siticus the Ancient
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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Tue Jun 26 2012, 23:33

Pah, Fabius Bile was tutored in the arts of flesh in Commorragh. All he knows he got from the Dark Kin, and somehow I doubt they gave him all the secrets of the art.

It is a bit of a shame that nids get little love, but as their modus operandi is devouring everything that isn't them, it's easy to understand why they have little friends. It seems the new MC rules might make them feel somewhat better, though.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Tue Jun 26 2012, 23:56

I want to see the film of Big Trouble in Little Commorragh, thanks for that, it gave me happy thoughts after reading all the ranting on the rumours thread.

The allies matrix on Faeit by the way was for a tournament, not a scan from the rulebook.

That being said, I can't really see anyone being too keen on the idea of 'being on our side'. After all, what would be your reaction once the battle's over? Personally I'd stab them in the back and nick their starship.

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Siticus the Ancient
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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Wed Jun 27 2012, 00:22

The allies matrix on Faeit was updated with a picture from the new rulebook. It is completely identical.

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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Wed Jun 27 2012, 00:29

@Siticus the Ancient wrote:
They are all under the Hive Mind

Not exactly... It's my understanding (after reading through the 4th and 5th ed tyranid codeci) that very few creatures are actually under the hive mind's control. Namely, any creature that is a synapse bearer. The rest of them just run amok until the synapse bearer exerts its control over them... And the synapse creatures are only vaguely under the hive minds control, as they are capable of making decisions, imagining, coming up with strategy, etc... In reality, the hive mind exerts very little control, probably due to the fact that the swarm is so spread out, it would be nigh impossible to control every creature at once.

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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Wed Jun 27 2012, 02:43

I just got back into Tyranids, I used to play them in 3rd, then GW sorta burned me by releasing new models and codexes a little too close together. (Yeah! Finally done with my Tyranid Ar-WHAT THE HELL GW?!) Right now I've got a solid core to a Hive Fleet Behemoth force since the new Tyrannofex and Swarmlord were too much to resist.

'Nid allies, while possible in theory since Hive Tyrants do have independent intelligence, probably wouldn't make much sense 'cause the armies insane enough to ally with them are also incompatible. Both Necrons and Chaos are anathema to them, at best, an ally for 'Nids would be something they're temporarily ignoring/not eating for strategic reasons known only to the Hive commander.

Game balance wise, I think combining Tyranids with other armies would result in the most broken, lopsided game mechanics this side of flying Daemon Princes and Landraiders with Dark Eldar. The idea of Tyrannofexs, Swarmlords, Trygons, and Tervigons working with faster moving mechanized forces is unreal. You've got to fight infantry in your lines while monsters are marching up the table? 'Nids are balanced by lack of mobility, combining them with mobile forces makes them unstoppable. Also, just THINK of what would happen if Doom of Malan'tai appeared next to a unit targeted by Primaris Pyskers.
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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Wed Jun 27 2012, 03:10

Doom is SO GOOD! When I play 'nids I always take one

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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Wed Jun 27 2012, 04:04

When Doom came out in early 5th edition, back when everyone was still playing foot armies carried over from 4th, he got a reputation for being quite "broken". Doom would mycetic spore his way into the middle of your lines, and suddenly huge swaths of models were being cleared off the table. 'Course, this changed as people learned that mechanized forces didn't have much to fear....
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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Wed Jun 27 2012, 04:04

I suppose the simple explanation to why nids can't ally with anyone else is this.

it's because they look at everything and think "FOOD!"

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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Wed Jun 27 2012, 04:31

@Cavash wrote:
Captain, that is one of the best things I have ever read. Laughing

Unfortunately for me, Allandrel owns the copyright. And, surely he would be a fool to sell. I might have to make him an offer he can't refuse...

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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Wed Jun 27 2012, 05:30

I can see how DE can ally with Fabius Bile led Chaos Marine force.
Especially if it is Coven DE.

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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Wed Jun 27 2012, 06:52

I just read Fabius Biles backstory (Don't read much of the fluff, outside of the rulebooks and codeci), and I am now tempted to get a small Fabius led CSM force.

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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Wed Jun 27 2012, 07:23

A surpsisingly nice article pn BoLS about this topic: Linky-link

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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Wed Jun 27 2012, 08:27

A very well reasoned article, thanks Kinnay. Everyone should read it. Allies will open up a whole new modelling and gaming experience for those who want to use them, but for those who don't, they should not break the game because of the built-in checks and balances.

And, they do potentially open up a whole new marketing strategy for GW. It will be very interesting to see what comes of that.
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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Wed Jun 27 2012, 12:04

It's also possible to form an alliance with your own race is it not? So DE army forms alliance with another DE army.

And if you follow the Allies rule in the book for this:

1) Is it then not possible to have for instance 4 Ravagers? 4 Raiders, each filled with 10 Incubi (just being silly ofcourse)?

2) What I also wonder is the unique rule for special characters in armies. Could you have 2 Urien Rakarths in such an alliance?

But you guys see what I mean right? It gives you a good excuse to expand your DE army ánd paint a different color scheme to keep things fresh for yourself...

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PostSubject: Re: New 6th Allies Matrix for Dark Eldar   Wed Jun 27 2012, 12:15

According to the mentioned table - no, you cannot take detachment of your own race.
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