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 Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?

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Erikjust
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PostSubject: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeWed May 16 2012, 09:55

I posted this hypothesis on Warseer some time back, but I like to hear your take on this.

My hypothesis was that the loyal Primarchs more or less let what happened to them happen out of their own free will.
The Imperium of man was changing all around them and some it was NOT to their liking amongst others the deification of the Emperor.
The Emperor had always opposed religion and delivered out harsh punishments to who so ever continued to practice it despite his warnings, in Age of Darkness we more or less hears of an entire planet more or less being exterminated because of the refusal to stop worshipping the Emperor as a god.
Yet now it was more or less being practiced openly throughout the Imperium of Man and the primarchs where powerless to stop it.
Sure they could have delivered punishment out as the Emperor might have done, but that might risk another civil war and after The Horus Heresy the Imperium needed to remain as a unity to survive, thus all the Primarchs could do was look on silently as all their father had worked for fell into ruin first with the Horus Heresy then with the reformation of the Imperium of man.

Now after the Horus heresy Jaghatai Khan went on a crusade to rescue the warriors taken by the Dark Eldar he was last seen sucked into the maelstrom and through there found his way into the Eldar Webway and to this day it is believed that he is lost in the webway, it has since been rumored that he was captured by the Dark Eldars.
However Vulcan´s homeworld was also raided by the Dark Eldar and with no special weapons to speak of, Vulcan managed to fight of those Dark Eldar Raiders.

Now Khan was a Primarch the same as Vulcan so there´s no way in hell he would have been captured by the Dark Eldar, not unless they had thrown wave after wave against him and even then.
Also Magnus the Red briefly entered the Webway and he was able to form more or less a map of the entire thing in his head. Now if Magnus could do it I don´t see any reason as to why the Khan Couldn´t do it also.

Thus I would say that it’s more likely that he let himself be captured by the Dark Eldar and perhaps taken to the city of Commorragh, perhaps to find his missing warriors, but also maybe to escape from an Imperium that was no longer something he could recognize.

So what do you think might The Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him and might he be lose in Commorragh (because I VERY much doubt any prison would be able to hold him).
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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeWed May 16 2012, 10:33

MIA, nuff said, the surviving Primarch either are lazy slobs, lost in some realm, dead, asleep or lost in the warp. A few are a combination. We will never hear anything but fanfic about them. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeWed May 16 2012, 15:06

The problem with that is you have to remember that DE are a fractured society, so the Raiders that attacked Vulkan might of been a minor Kabal, and those that captured Khan might of been high on the social ladder. On top of that the DE have shown that nothing is free from being captured, I dont see why a primarch would be excluded...

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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeWed May 16 2012, 15:18

I have no love lost for the Primarches, but this was harsh Shadow. A captured Primarch. Fun idea though.
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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeWed May 16 2012, 16:30

It could happen. The Dark Eldar are certainly tenacious, deviant and cunnign enough to find a way to do so. It would just be a matter of time, in my opinion.

Cool idea.

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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeWed May 16 2012, 19:54

I think it's doubtful, as we've seen no primarch/grotesque/DE hybrid thingy... and there's not a single DE that would pass up the opportunity to get a superior killing machine by ripping out the primarchs organs and replicating them via haemun tech... Except maybe Vect... and it WOULD explain how he stays so youthful (as I assume a primarch would be able to endure a nearly endless amount of torment...)

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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeWed May 16 2012, 22:53

Alternately, he was flung through a portal to an Ork world, where he became the secret patron of Wazdakka Gutsmek. Once the Supa Eyeway is complete, 10 billion Biker Nobz led by Khan and the White Scars will raid the Eye of Terror, dealing a crushing blow to Chaos and repaving the Astronomicon in the process.


I guess he could have been nabbed by those darn Harlequins, too...

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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeThu May 17 2012, 03:51

There is a couple of flaws in your logic here...
Just because one primarch could do something doesn't mean they all could. Magnus was the Primarch of knowing everything that is possible to know, he was the one of the mightiest psykers in the Imperium (maybe even before the Emperer as he dared to look in places even the big E didn't!). his knowledge of the warp was immense so being able to see the webway network may have been no small thing. I doubt the khan could seperate his spirit to swim the great ocean.
The point is it is highly possible Khan is wandering around in circles, only the Harlequins know the full extent of that realm. & I doubt they'll tell!

There is also a difference between raiding a village expecting to capture barbarians and instead facing a Primarch and going into battle against one. This force would be much larger and more prepared for a fight against marines. So comparing the 2 scenario's is a little mute.

As for the Dark Eldar capturing a primarch? Sure their techno is their tech is high enough. I can imagine a glass statue of the khan in one of Vect's galleries!

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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeThu May 17 2012, 15:01

you also have to add that he might be stuck in the Black Library. Remember the Black Guard allow certain people in, but rarely let them leave. It could be said that Khan stumbled apon it, and they allowed him in because he well... is a primarch. To which when he tried to leave, well, you get the picture Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 13 2012, 21:35

my view is....vect is actually him lol.


Now thinking about it here....it could work...after all he did plan that marine attack on the dark city...very khan like planning...

Ok maybe not the best view but i like the idea.

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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 14 2012, 12:45

They could capture suns. I think they could probably imprison a primarch if they set their minds to it. It would probably involve incapacitating him with arcane technology etc. rather than just leaving him awake and concious in a room. Razz

Still, there's no reason to assume that he was captured, he could be anywhere. If he were to go with anyone, it would probably be the Harlequins. That or he and the other lost Primarchs are all knocking on the bottom of the Golden Throne yelling for the Custodes to move the damned chair and let them out. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 14 2012, 13:53

@Anggul wrote:
Still, there's no reason to assume that he was captured, he could be anywhere. If he were to go with anyone, it would probably be the Harlequins. That or he and the other lost Primarchs are all knocking on the bottom of the Golden Throne yelling for the Custodes to move the damned chair and let them out. Razz

lol!

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Vah' Ruith
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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 15 2012, 11:00

You mean Dorn let his Legion be decimated in the Iron Cage Incident? That Corax let his Legion turn into giant mutant freaks? Guilliman let his brother incapacitate him? Much of what befell the Primarchs was unforeseen and detrimental, not even the Emperor let Horus rebel, these things just happened. Eldar technology was unimaginably superior to humanity's even in humanity's glory days. The Dark Eldar wouldn't have rushed the Khan with naught but knives and harsh words. Their knowledge of the Webway would have been superior to the Khan's in every way, they would have ambushed him in any area that suited them, with overwhelming firepower and superior technology. He could have beaten them in a fair fight, of course, but he would have been at every disadvantage.

Naturally this is assuming that the rumours of his capture are even true.

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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 15 2012, 14:07

@Vah' Ruith wrote:
You mean Dorn let his Legion be decimated in the Iron Cage Incident?

Actually, he did. His Legion was too large to become a Chapter, and too stubborn to split, so he threw his Legion into the meatgrinder of the Iron Cage to wear them down. It's a win/win situation. He either wipes out the Iron Warriors, has his Legion reduced to a more manageable number, dies in a blaze of glory against his most hated foe.

Personally though, I see no reason the Dark Eldar couldn't have captured the Khan.

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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 18 2012, 17:20

I refuse to have any faith in the idea of a primarch being captured by our kin, though killing is much more possible. Most Dark Eldars require large raiding forces inorder to subdue normal marines, but a primarch? That would take an armies worth of Kabalites.

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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 18 2012, 18:30

A single army's worth of Kabalites is not something that is to hard to believe in Commorragh. If Vect willed it then every Kabal that has bowed before him would send forces to capture the Primarch, wishing not to offend the Supreme Overlord.
Also, the Dark Eldar know the Webway much better than the Khan would and so should be able to corner his forces off and then ambush them from directions unseen by their mon-keigh eyes.

Also, just out of curiosity, why do you think that killing him would be much more possible? He probably would not have many marines with him and we have captured stars in our Dark City. I don't think that it would be too difficult to manufacture something that could subdue him long enough to be overwhelmed, or at least some kind of Pokéball that he could be trapped in.

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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 18 2012, 18:56

Primarchs have been killed by "mortal" forces before (Dorn died while storming a Chaos battleship during the Scouring), and the Big Blue Boyscout got killed by a poisoned blade (yeh, he's not actually dead, but only because the Ultramarines placed him into stasis before the poison had time to kill him). Granted it was not just poisoned but also a Daemonsword, but one doesn't find it too hard to think that the Dark Eldar, who have refined the creation of toxins into an artform and collectively know a way to kill any creature in the Galaxy, would be able to manufacture something atleast as effective.

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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 18 2012, 18:59

Very true, Nomic. I think that even a virulent strain of the Glass Plague could do it.
He would make a very pretty statue. Twisted Evil

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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 19 2012, 09:47

@Ruke wrote:
I think it's doubtful, as we've seen no primarch/grotesque/DE hybrid thingy... and there's not a single DE that would pass up the opportunity to get a superior killing machine by ripping out the primarchs organs and replicating them via haemun tech... Except maybe Vect... and it WOULD explain how he stays so youthful (as I assume a primarch would be able to endure a nearly endless amount of torment...)

That... is ingenious. That theory explains so much.

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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 19 2012, 10:07

@Cavash wrote:
Also, just out of curiosity, why do you think that killing him would be much more possible? He probably would not have many marines with him and we have captured stars in our Dark City. I don't think that it would be too difficult to manufacture something that could subdue him long enough to be overwhelmed, or at least some kind of Pokéball that he could be trapped in.

Primarch physiology is advanced even for Eldar. Sure we can capture suns and destroy planets, but those things rarely fight back. Primarchs arent demi-gods for no reason. I still remember that a little fleet of Salamanders did battle in the Dark City and actually escape from there. A Primarch is more than capable of fighting off an entire Chapter (Like Corax proved in the Isstvaan Drop site massacre, when he held an legions worth of Word Bearers and Iron Warriors).

Besides, a Primarch is capable of killing himself if the situation requires it. Denying the ultimate price of an xenos sounds really good.

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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 19 2012, 12:34

Dark Eldar are the rightful masters of the galaxy, yeah, Primarchs may be advanced, but I doubt that the Dark Eldar wouldn't quickly learn and adapt.
Do you forget that the little fleet of Salamanders also had Vect's scheming on their side? They escaped because Vect let them. I think that if he wanted them for pets they could never escape.

Also, The point I was making is that if we could enslave the area of a star then the Haemonculi could probably create so sort of stasis field device to stop a nine foot tall super human, no matter how advanced his physiology is.

I do have to disagree that his physiology is too advanced for the Eldar to understand. Yeah, he may be awesome and Primarchy, but if he is in the Webway for millenia then he will tire and will make a mistake, after all, he is only human at heart. The human side of the Primarchs is what led to their down fall.

I really think that if Vect wanted him then eventually he would get the Primarch. A few Marines to countless murderous xenos seems like a bad odds for survival. Firepower and Eldar cunning will prevail eventully.

Right now I've been awake for thirty-ish hours, so I shall find sleep and continue this conversation later!

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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 23 2012, 17:10

I'll change my mind, dear Cavash. Id say it is possible to capture a primarch in a static cell or some kinda multi dimensional labyrinth, but capturing one alive and torture it is still impossible IMHO.

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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 23 2012, 18:22

As far as I found this topic I`m in Xtazy.
I love the idea of Jaghatai captured in stasis untill DE find what is better to do with him:

1. Charge the White Scars into trap and get as many prisoners as possible ( Hellacious prisoner quest this stuff will make, and if I wasnt still on the rules and codex stuff but more into the game i`d totally make BR )

2. Keeping him in stasis they can use him as a valuable toy, a very rare traiding sorce either with chaos or with allied forces. So there maybe is time when he will get back in game. Also there is alway the possibility to link 1 and 2 and there you go a nice story Wink ( I believe fanfic make this game GREAT and fun ) Twisted Evil

At least one of these things my Blue Jackals would do in the present opportunity Twisted Evil

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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 23 2012, 18:23

@Sara'khil Umbrakol wrote:
I'll change my mind, dear Cavash. Id say it is possible to capture a primarch in a static cell or some kinda multi dimensional labyrinth, but capturing one alive and torture it is still impossible IMHO.

To quote the door from Alice in Wonderland - "improbable, nothing is impossible."

And this, my friend, is the impossible city. Somewhere, deep within it is probably some kind of machine or artefact which could do so. Finding said machine or even anyone who knows of it's existence or how it works however, is another matter entirely. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him?   Might the Khan have let the Dark Eldar capture him? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 25 2012, 06:34

@Sara'khil Umbrakol wrote:
I'll change my mind, dear Cavash. Id say it is possible to capture a primarch in a static cell or some kinda multi dimensional labyrinth, but capturing one alive and torture it is still impossible IMHO.

Well, the Emperors Children managed to do it to Fulgrim in a short story, so it isn't impossible.

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