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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 27 2012, 20:31

well my question would be as follows, do we get to assault after moving 12" still?

Because my understanding is this

12" move, you can still disembark

disembark now allows for a 6" move from the hull

open topped says we can assault from disembarking, so we get 2d6 (7" average) with a re-roll

not to shabby going from 12" move + 2" + d6 run + 6" charge

so 4th= 20-26" charge
5th = 20-30" charge

or am I wrong on these assumptions?

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Mandor
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 27 2012, 20:41

@Shadows Revenge wrote:
12" move, you can still disembark
This. You can only disembark if you move 6" or less. It would actually be quite nice if we could still move 12". But hey, at least we are now just as fast as terminators from a Land Raider! We can't damage them in any way any more, but our charge distance is the same!
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Sorrowshard
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 27 2012, 20:43

uhm we were in 5th , new ed is sixth ?

Apparently you can only disembark from any vehicle if it only moves six in the move phase , so plus your 6" diembark move + 2d6 random charge gives a max of 24" (not far off what it was) however the chance of messing it up is vastly increased plus your FNP wont help blunt the stand and shoot + shooting phase that will follow you stranding yourself ....

yes and having DE essentially assault as far/fast as termies is derp

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KheraKhera
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 27 2012, 20:48

Our frail space-dark-elves-legs can't handle the running, unlike them macho space-real-man termies.
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 27 2012, 21:02

Ereshkigal said in his post earlier today following reading the book that you can disembark from a vehicle that's moved more than 6". I realise it could be a typo though.

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Ereshkigal
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 27 2012, 21:27

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
Ereshkigal said in his post earlier today following reading the book that you can disembark from a vehicle that's moved more than 6". I realise it could be a typo though.

you can't. But you can charge if disembarking from an open topped vehicle.
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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 27 2012, 21:29

Atleast Wytches can still tie up termis in combat. Not kill em, but they don't really do that now eighter. I've had em hold off a unit of BA hammernators for a whole game in the past. Still, shooting seems to be what we'll be good at, altough we still have the potential to assault things and win/tie them up, unlike Tau or Craftworlders.

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Allandrel
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 27 2012, 23:16

I think that Fleet under 6th is a bigger advantage when compared to non-Fleet units than it was under 5th.

5th edition: Fleet units can forgo shooting to add 1d6 to their movement before assaulting, averaging 3.5" greater assault move at the cost of shooting. No benefit gained in a turn where the unit does not assault, making Fleet useless for shooty units like Eldar Dire Avengers or Dark Eldar Kabalite Warriors.

6th edition: Fleet units can re-roll their choice of dice when running or assaulting, resulting in reliably higher movement. This benefits Fleet units whether they are trying to cover ground OR launch an assault. Furthermore, there is no trade-off for the assault benefit.

Yes, the average extra distance gained in an assault turn is slightly less, in exchange for retaining the ability to shoot on the way into an assault and manipulate the assault dice in our favor, resulting in a less variable boost than running before assaulting provided, and quite importantly: the ability to run faster when not assaulting. Which means that shooty units benefit from Fleet once more, as they did under 3E and 4E.

In addition, because Overwatch seems to have seriously weakened fragile assault units like DE, on a metagame level the faster running move may prove to be more valuable simply because assaulting will no longer be a viable move. I certainly hope not, given that I have been getting ready to paint up my 40 wyches.
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Ereshkigal
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 27 2012, 23:46

With the new rules the warriors can shot their blaster (while holding the splinter rifle) and then assault using fleet. In 5th they couldn't they changed some wording on the shooting and assault phase making it possible to shoot with only some models in the unit.

i think the new fleet is stronger than the old one... the only downside is we have no point in assault anymore.

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Archon Farath Mure
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Thu Jun 28 2012, 00:15

I'll wait to see the errata before I start complaining. I played Orcs & Goblins in 7th Edition Fantasy. 6E DE can't be worse than that, and I could use some real practice. Bring it on.

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Sorrowshard
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Thu Jun 28 2012, 00:18

you think assaulting with kabalites is somehow good ? you are better off simply shooting the splinter rifles , why get shot on the way in ? sure it might work if you are trying to mop up say 2 marines ?

even the raider 'gunboat' theory is flawed , 6's to hit (even with splinter racks) is never going to achieve much, remeber those 3+ saves you see at least 2 out of three games ? the only way you are getting through them (and apparently 2+ aswell) is by getting alot of wounds on them , getting a handfull of splinter hits is going to do jack , I'm currently at a total loss how to make anything in the DE book work in 6th now ....

trueborn , no more drive 12 hop out into cover and shoot ? how do they justify their cost now ? static Dl bunker ? waht was kelly smoking when they priced blasters ? ima just buy allied Dragons and use my TB models or something , it's a clustrf***

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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Thu Jun 28 2012, 00:23

About assaulting...

Some nasty psypowers were mentioned, but only from Telepathy school. But there is another BRB disciplne for our allied Farseer: Divination.

1st - signature - power looking pretty faimilar: re-roll "to hit" rolls.. isn't it Guide? no, it's also work in close combat! And someone on WarSeer mentioned that "Deny the Witch" works only on psychic attacks or curses, weak Librarians cannot counter enemy buffs.

And only viable assault unit now is Hellions, imo. they wouldn't suffer from Str4 hits from exploding raider coz they don't need it, Skilled Raider would give +1 to Jink save so bunch of Hellions w/ Baron will still roll 3+ cover against shooting. And they benefit from new Fleet rule which gives them a chance to use Splinter Pods always.

Rough math:
42 shots - 8/9 hits ~ 37 hits, so w/ Lady Average on our side we'll score 18-19 wounds. Just look at the fear in eyes of this Space Marine player who think his Terminators can rock now!..
Then we charge them, and let's assume we did it sucessfully...
21 HoW hit - seven more wounds. so... 25 or more wounds, and we even didn't land a single blow! But that's usally enough to finish 5-men-w/TV's on heads and Big Armored Doors in hands.

60 attacks - 45 hits. 22-23 more wounds. Enough, even 10-men TVHeads squad would be rendered to useless, most member will die before they could raise their stupid electrified clubs. Rest can relent and die at second phase.

And i even didn't mention Combat Drugs, or nasty power from Div which is essentialy Anti-Fortune - re-roll sucessfull armor saves. And i forgot about Baron's S6 attacks lol, things can only be worse for opposition.
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Allandrel
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Thu Jun 28 2012, 00:35

@Archon Farath Mure wrote:
I played Orcs & Goblins in 7th Edition Fantasy.

That takes dedication. I played only one game against 7th edition Orcs & Goblins, and I felt really bad for the guy.
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Arrex
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Thu Jun 28 2012, 03:24

@Sorrowshard wrote:
, I'm currently at a total loss how to make anything in the DE book work in 6th now ....

I'll take those Dark Eldar off your hands, pretty sure I can figure out how to use them in Sixth Edition. Wink Seriously, I don't see what the big deal is. If you think snap fire on 6s is bad, what about back in 3.5 when you could opt to stand and shoot at normal BS? Yeah, GW totally just ruined Dark Eldar, gosh, I can't think how I might possibly adapt my playing style-oh wait, I'll just move my gunboats more slowly when necessary. Seriously, take it easy on the forumitis, this new edition is going to be a lot of fun, I can't wait to finally get in some games with it.
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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Thu Jun 28 2012, 06:10

I rarely moved my trueborn venoms more than 6'' anyway, since jumping out of them usually quaranteed the trueborn being dead. Occasionally you have to sacrifice them to get close enough to some vehicle that must be destroyed as soon as possible, but usually I prefer to just stay inside the transport.

If you can't score out of vehicles anymore, we will have a lot harder time holding objectives, tho, especially as hull points quarantee our transports will be dead by the end of the game (well, they're almost quaranteed to be blown up now, but I've every now and then had one get really lucky and only get repeatedly shaken, or get immobilized next to an objective with the troops still inside). We don't have any units that can just sit around getting shot at and fight back if somebody assaults them (like Marines) or huge fearless/stubborn blobs that have so many wounds it takes ages to wipe them out in shooting or assult (like Guard and Orks). That leaves us with...Warriors (can actually contribute by shooting while holding an objective, but pray nothing charges you. Unit of 20 firing at charging tac Marines with overwatch will kill maybe one, and then get wiped out in combat)? Wracks (decent toughness, can actually do something in assult, but can't contribute to the game while sitting on an objective)? Allied Rangers (very hard to shoot to death, have sniper rifles which are getting a buff, but pray nothing assaults you)?

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Ereshkigal
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Thu Jun 28 2012, 08:20

@Sorrowshard wrote:

trueborn , no more drive 12 hop out into cover and shoot ? how do they justify their cost now ? static Dl bunker ? waht was kelly smoking when they priced blasters ? ima just buy allied Dragons and use my TB models or something , it's a clustrf***

You can move 6" disembark and move 6" with the disembarked again. It's almost like before. Then in the shooting phase if you want you can go flat out with the raider/venom for another 24" (and this you couldn't do before).

Btw it's obvious that DE took a huge nerf in this edition, while i can't understand why Blood Angels (already a top tier army) recieved so many buffs. I'm at loss here... ok i still can play DE, just not assault DE, but why BA and IG took so many buffs?
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Thu Jun 28 2012, 10:56

I can see the Void Raven with 2 Implosion missiles being the bomb against Terminator armies.

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Ereshkigal
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Thu Jun 28 2012, 11:32

We can't play without voidraven or razorwing because it's our only response to enemy aircraft because of the skyfire rule (flyers have skyfire and it's our only skyfire weapon). So every list will fancy at least 1 of those.
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Thu Jun 28 2012, 11:49

you only need a 25% of the initial unit members to regroup!! lone blasterborn FTW!!!

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Thu Jun 28 2012, 13:55

Explosions cost far too much and you have to assume 3++ saves. Shatterfields are the go to choice now because they can plink hull points if needs be and drown things in wounds, the now inevitable termy blobs won't like four of those in the face with a side order of ap 2 .... implosion missiles would be worth considering at half the price..... maybe

.BA got a massive boost for sure and IG will be foul (er ) than ever. Good luck with the vendettas and hydras everyone.....

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Ereshkigal
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Thu Jun 28 2012, 14:26

I was saying the same to a friend. IG and BA are the strongest armies right now, followed by Necrons.
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Sorrowshard
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Thu Jun 28 2012, 14:30

Nay GK are still bent as a bunch of bananas .

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Ereshkigal
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Thu Jun 28 2012, 14:32

@Sorrowshard wrote:
Nay GK are still bent as a bunch of bananas .

Why GK? They almost lost all their advantage with Helberds and they don't have good AP shots to kill easily vehicles. Sw are better.
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Thu Jun 28 2012, 17:23

Ereshkigal, please tell us rules for Tank Shock and Ram.
All do and cant do.

I think thats important.

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Thu Jun 28 2012, 17:57

Guys, apparently you aren't the only ones complaining of being "nerfed". Black Templars seem to be under the impression that changes to Preferred Enemy represent a severe "nerf", despite the fact PE now apparently works on shooting (Reroll 1s to hit and wound rolls) and would make their 5 man Terminator squads with twin Tankhunting Assault Cannons one of the deadliest ranged units in the game.
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