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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 07:52

@Arrex wrote:
The sword cuts both ways. Other armies besides Dark Eldar commonly use FnP; it takes them down a peg too. I'd honestly celebrate any such changes, since the real advantage of Dark Eldar in experienced hands is using the mobility to pounce on one flank and spray things with combined torrenting from angles that prevent return fire. Lower cover saves and less FnP is awesome if you're in the business of firing Dark Lances and splinter rifles at everything.

Now imagine if you're running a slower army against DE on a proper game board. (Good terrain setup, not the Great Plains or Cityfight) Now you can't just rely on cover anymore AND you've got an enemy army that's likely to abuse any LOS blocking obstacles to apply force to one exposed flank. Trust me, nerfing cover saves and FnP is a huge bonus for a highly mobile army that relies on overwhelming firepower. (Don't listen to the nonsense, DE are first and foremost a shooting army, and one of the best at the job to boot)

Good points there Arrex. DE will still be a very effective army, tho ill miss the toughness of grotesques, wracks, hellions in cover and using the cool miniatures.

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 08:34

@thelordhellion wrote:
ihowever our vehicles can die to boltguns!?!?! No

Our vehicles already die to boltguns. I'm not seeing the issue.
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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 08:41

@Allandrel wrote:
Our vehicles already die to boltguns.

What!? When did this happen!? LULZ!

I disbelieve, therefor it can not be so!

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Eldur
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 09:07

If Preferred Enemy is reroll all hits and 1's to wound, then Vect will shine even more.

But what I'm really hoping for is a change in Instant Death like in the Orphan leaked 6th rulebook.... 4 points of strenght over target toughness means 1 additional wound, 5 points +2W, etc. Vect (and Nidzilla) says pleeeeaaase.

If everybody is weaker, who wins? Glass hammer dies a little easier, but kills a lot more. Our survaibility depends on how fast we kill our foes (This is the first thing that Dark Eldar learn, even before crawling).

I await 6th edition with sadistic anxiety

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The New AIDS
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 09:13

I just hope fliers are the crap! I really want to replace my ravagers with Voidravens, as they will invariably be cooler and my kabal doesn't have enough members to fully crew ravagers.

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tlronin
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 09:42

@Ruke wrote:
@Allandrel wrote:
Our vehicles already die to boltguns.

What!? When did this happen!? LULZ!

I disbelieve, therefor it can not be so!

S4 + a 6 on a D6 is a glancing hit. A 6 on the damage chart (+1 for open topped, -1 for glancing) and kaboom! It'll take 2 6s in a row, but it's possible. It hapenned to me once. Crying or Very sad

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Eldur
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 09:48

I bet that was sarcasm Razz

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tlronin
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 09:50

Yeah as I wrote it I thought perhaps it was. Very Happy But still, i always like being a smart ass. study

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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 10:04

The psykers being more like magic in FB thing is practically confirmed, but that's also one of the aspects I least like about the rules. Magic works in FB since all army book-specific lores follow the same format and everybody gets magic and anti-magic (except Dwarfs, who lack magic but compensate by having more dispell dice). In 40k, 1/4th of armies lack psykers entirely, codex-specific powers aren't laid out at all like FB magic lores and even out of the armies that do have psykers, only a few have any reliable anti-psychic ability (having one unit immune to psychic powers or being able to negate powers cast right next to it hardly counts). If they're going to make psykers the new awesome thing, they better eighter give all armies access to them or give all armies a proper way to defend against them (just a save versus psychic attacks won't do, as that won't stop stuff like hammerhand of JotWW). I suppose they could do a big errata/WD update to give most armies some new anti-psychic stuff (for us, that could mean FAQing the Crucible to for a ld test on 3D6 and always have 18'' range, or giving us a new Coven unit made from tortured psykers that send out psychic screams of pain that interfere with casting of powers).

Altough, people who say we don't have psykers aren't actually quite correct. We can take Harlequins, and the Shadowseer is a psyker. She, much like Eldar Warlocks, might not need a psychic test to use her power, but is still listed as a psyke rrn the unit entry and therefore should logically be able to take the new rulebook psychic lores (assuming that any psyker is supposed to be able to take them).

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 10:19

Must admit, this is one of the things that I am least looking forward to, especially if the powers are random. Doesn't really affect my DE army but the BA army that I have been playing for years has a couple of powers that are absolute staples of most builds and others that are complete turkeys. On the plus side, I guess there is the point that we won't be guaranteed to be facing two SW priests with JotWW every damn time!

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tlronin
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 10:24

In general I keep out of these kind of discussions without reading the entire book first, because I don't like to be negative beforhand. But seems like the rumors about those psysic powers are getting quite solid now and I too must say that right now they are not very appealing to me.

I like cold calculated strategy with a splash of random fun here and there, not random galore everywhere with a splash of strategy here and there. I hope I'm wrong and simply too negative. Will be continued when I actually read the book.

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The New AIDS
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 11:15

It upsets me that my Eldar will be made redundant. The army relies heavily on psychic powers (more than any other) and I have an arseload of psykers in my army. The eldar, master of psychic powers, at the very least should be able to choose their powers.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 12:30

Our vehicles can already die to boltguns. Sure, raiders aren't likely to get many hull points, but if a full squad of marines shoots at one now the chances are something nasty will happen to it.
EDIT: Sorry, didn't realise the discussion had moved on before I hit the send button.

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Eldur
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 12:53

Hull Points... I hope they don't go this way...

Open Topped Vehicle < Vehicle < (Flyer?) < Open Topped Tank < Tank < Super Heavy/Titan

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 20:29

Well the rumour i heard was that land raiders and defilers would get 4 and rhinos would get 3. Can't see them giving any vehicle less than 2, otherwise a single glancing hit would just result in a vehicle destroyed result, so i'm guessing that raiders and venoms will have 2. Monoliths will probably get 4 as well, so my guess would be most vehicles will have 3 with only particularly flimsy stuff having less, and particularly robust stuff getting more. sadly that means i can't really think of much else that would only get 2. Maybe landspeeders? Ork buggies and deffkoptas? My guess would be flyers in general will get 2

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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 20:37

I can see Ork Trukks and Kanz getting 2 as well, along with Land Speeders, Vypers and maybe the Necron Barges. Medium armoured vehicles (like Rhino- and Chimera-chassis vehicles, Dreads, Eldar tanks) probably get 3 and big extremely heavily armoured stuff like Russes, Land Raiders and Monoliths 4.

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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 20:57

Just saw this on BoLS:

-AP are on ccw but he says power weapons are ap 2, not 3.
-When you charge it's double your move, infantry move 6, bikes 8 cav 7 etc.
-It's move assault then shooting now!
-Fnp is 5+. Master crafted ccw give you a 5+ invuln save
-When you shoot you roll to hit depending on the speed of your target. Fast vehicles you always need a 6.
-A unit can't claim a object while inside a vehicle.
-There's new kinds of instance death. If your say strengh 8 vs a space marine captain toughness 4
you only do 2 wounds! Strengh (9?) or more would do 3 wounds & kill him.
-In kill point missions you get kill points based on what the units points cost, so for example a
landraider would be worth 5 kill points & a unit of marines 3pts.

Powe weaposn are ap2. Yay, agonizers still kill Termies!
Charge rumour contradicts the other one, altough maybe it's supposed to meant that charge is twice your movement + 2D6 (working similarly to FB that charge is done during movement phase)
Move/assault/shoot thing was also mentioned in older rumours, altough I still can't see it workign very well (you'd almost never get a chanse to shoot your pistols and flamers on an assault unit).
Master crafted weapons giving a 5++ seems utterly pointless since practically nobody has them and those that have tend to have a better invulnerable save anyway.
Fast skimmers (and I presume fliers) nearly impossible to hit? I think the surviveability of our vehicles just skyrocketed (also, I'm pretty sure the rumour about vehicles having ws1 in close combat is a typo. Some of the older rumours mentioned them having ws10, whcih would make more sense).
...But units inside vehicles can't hold objectives. What the hell are we supposed to do in objective-based missions then? Out troops are fragile as it is, and with cover and fnp dropping to 5+, they'll be shredded by practically anything. Quess we'll have to boost around in nearly impossible to hit vehicles and disembark the last turn. Or ignore objectives and kill everything. That seemed to work quite well last time I took my DE to a tournament.
Seems double strenght no longer instagibs us. Makes us a bit less vulnerable to going splat when the shadowfield fails. The downside is that we need some more lance hits to kill Tyranid Warriors and the like.
Vect and Abaddon are no longer worth the same amount of KP than an empty Rhino. Makes spamming cheap units less bad in KP missions (I I understand correctly, both players would have the same total KP, so no situations where the entire enemy army gives 3 KP while you have 15).

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 21:07

That rumour appeared on faeit 212 earlier today as well, but it generally seems to be regarded as old and based on the leaked pdf rather than more recent information

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Levitas
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 21:19

Its better to view the book as a whole and not just how individual rules will possibly function. Change is necessary, good and we will adapt as always. As DE players we are very used to that, and I cant see GW nerfing a range that it has just brought back into fashion.

Expect marines to still be strong, its just the way it is. But there will be some shifting and we may even get to field units we didnt see as viable.

Reserve judgment until a few games have been played and the kinks worked out.

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 21:32

^Well said.

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 22:25

wound allocation from closest to furthest.... Drazhar waiting in the rear of Incubi units untill the assault begins... it makes sense!

master crafted gives 5++ (jn combat I guess..) means more Sanguinary guard is coming.

dark eldar (fast skimmer) vehicles needing 6s to be hit? Well that would make us the Uber mech army. Dais of Destruction is comiiing!!! but that would probably mean only 2 hull points... bitch please I won't care then.
BUT then flyer rules won't add more survaibility? well I know all flyers are already fast skimmers, but...


Oh! And IMO, characters (not only IC) will probably be in duels like WHFB unit champions. Ghostplate armour option in squad leaders are my main reason to think that (well... Arjac Rockfist and Lukas the Trickster are good reasons as well...). They still wont be able to demand satisfaction smacking faces with their glove.

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Levitas
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 23:33

The whole duel rule sounds like its open to abuse. Lets feed a haemonculus to abbadon and save the squad kind of deal.

I want to see how vehicles work in combat before jumping up and down about the 6+ to shoot them. But the change in phase order could be interesting and shake things up. Very unsure of the Dais being good though, it has many many flaws!

I can see a possible shift to favor wyches over warriors, who will still get the dodge in combat. Warriors with a 5+ save and 5+ FNP entrenched in 'interactive scenery' could be...brave.

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Wed Jun 13 2012, 23:42

@Levitas wrote:

I can see a possible shift to favor wyches over warriors.

Tell me a reason why I wouldn't favor wyches in this edition already?! I once had warriors in my list but than I realized that they are worthless for everything expect the one blaster shot.

I'm also really fine with having ws0 on my vehicles in combat in exchange for the only 6's to get hit by range stuff.

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Thu Jun 14 2012, 03:00

Kabalite Warriors are worthless? I would rather take 5 warriors in a venom than 5 wyches. I think kabalite warriors in venoms are great late round objective grabbers. Both squads have their purpose, but to say warriors are worthless is hardly fair. 5 Rapid fire splinter rifles with 2x splinter cannons can do a lot of damage. 3+/4+ is way better than what wyches will need to hit and wound in CC.

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed rumors and DE   Thu Jun 14 2012, 03:08

nope.

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