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 Finecast Incubi-Haters gonna hate. [closed]

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Anggul
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PostSubject: Re: Finecast Incubi-Haters gonna hate. [closed]   Sat Sep 03 2011, 21:56

Nepenthe wrote:
Anggul wrote:
What gets me about failcast is that they've actually tricked people into thinking they're a lot more detailed. Really it's mostly just because it's much harder to see detail on the really shiny pewter that they used to be made of, it looks pretty much the same once painted.

Unpainted plastic just shows up detail much more and looks a lot more crisp because it's not shiny, it's matt so it's not obscured. Just look at unpainted plastic models compared to painted ones and you'll see what I mean, you can see the detail easier.
Yeah, it's not a coincidence a lot of pro painters use the gray undercoat: it allows you to pick out the detail in an unparalleled way. Sadly, I'm familiar with the effect from my other hobby, hi-fi, and I know how rabidly people will defend their perceptions. Since, you know, if you don't believe them, you are calling them gullible and/or liars. Smile

Thank you, my mates are blindly adamant that they look so much better, and I can't convince them that it's just a trick of perception. It's great that they're in that material rather than metal, but 'finecast' is just a guise for them to use a cheaper material and charge more for it.

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Korthkor
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PostSubject: Re: Finecast Incubi-Haters gonna hate. [closed]   Tue Sep 06 2011, 20:38

My first finecast unit was Incubi, but the detail on half of them had seemingly 'melted'. I got a refund on them, and now I've got 10 metal Incubi on the way from ebay.
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PostSubject: Re: Finecast Incubi-Haters gonna hate. [closed]   Thu Sep 08 2011, 15:15

Hmmm. I may have to nab some of these Incubi then. I have not seen any finecast models as of yet but I have heard more good than bad thus far...although the bad is pretty ugly.

Hekate

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xzandrate
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PostSubject: Re: Finecast Incubi-Haters gonna hate. [closed]   Thu Sep 08 2011, 17:11

Above and beyond the casting quality, the one good thing that must be said for GW, is they haven't given any hassle in replacing models.

They've been pretty outstanding in the fact that they usually don't require you to send stuff back, and then wait on replacements, and generally I've not waited very long on replacement anything from GW.
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Hekate
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PostSubject: Re: Finecast Incubi-Haters gonna hate. [closed]   Thu Sep 08 2011, 17:35

This is true, has been for a long time. A plus and then some.

Probably going to nab some this weekend.

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Nepenthe
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PostSubject: Re: Finecast Incubi-Haters gonna hate. [closed]   Sat Sep 10 2011, 10:28

xzandrate wrote:
Above and beyond the casting quality, the one good thing that must be said for GW, is they haven't given any hassle in replacing models.
It does happen, though. Especially now with finecast. "oh, but you can use hot water to bend it/fill it with a drop of superglue/sculpt new detail with a bit of green stuff!" Absolutely hate the stuff, completely without redeeming qualities.
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PostSubject: Re: Finecast Incubi-Haters gonna hate. [closed]   Sat Sep 10 2011, 11:37

I dunno, load it into a black-powder gun and shoot that bloated Tw@ Director Kirby repeatedly with it ?

Other than that, nah no redeeming features, I'm fairly certain metal models would be better for the above too...

I especially hate the flimsy rubbery weapons, horrible to paint, needs to be stiffer.

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Nepenthe
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PostSubject: Re: Finecast Incubi-Haters gonna hate. [closed]   Sat Sep 10 2011, 13:33

Sorrowshard wrote:
I dunno, load it into a black-powder gun and shoot that bloated Tw@ Director Kirby repeatedly with it ?

Other than that, nah no redeeming features, I'm fairly certain metal models would be better for the above too...

I especially hate the flimsy rubbery weapons, horrible to paint, needs to be stiffer.
I have a 90s metal dreadnought with whoever decided to implement finecast's name on it.
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Hekate
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PostSubject: Re: Finecast Incubi-Haters gonna hate. [closed]   Sat Sep 10 2011, 13:38

Listening to all this makes me wonder. I will probably get at least one unit of them so I can see what the stuff is like for myself. I am filled with misgivings with the comments on rubbery and soft material.

Oh well, I'll soon find out.

Hekate

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Nepenthe
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PostSubject: Re: Finecast Incubi-Haters gonna hate. [closed]   Sat Sep 10 2011, 16:24

Hekate wrote:
Listening to all this makes me wonder. I will probably get at least one unit of them so I can see what the stuff is like for myself. I am filled with misgivings with the comments on rubbery and soft material.

Oh well, I'll soon find out.

Hekate

There's a guy on Warseer who came home after three weeks to find his Haemonculus bent 30 degrees. Initially there were tons of really badly miscast miniatures released, but even now small spikey stuff like lelith's leg armor spikes, Lhamaean hair daggers and a multitude of other small detail the Dark Eldar range is rife with simply isn't there. My first four were perfect, so I haven't had to try and straighten anything, but when a guy like Winterdyne tells me the swords he straightens don't stay that way I a) believe him b) blow a head gasket when I see the Lhamaeans.
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Hekate
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PostSubject: Re: Finecast Incubi-Haters gonna hate. [closed]   Sat Sep 10 2011, 16:29

Yikes! I am so glad I have metal Incubi now. Only five of them, but even so.

Kind of a Russian Roulette deal buying this Finecast stuff it seems. This discussion has proven to be very illuminating.

Hekate

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xzandrate
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PostSubject: Re: Finecast Incubi-Haters gonna hate. [closed]   Sun Sep 11 2011, 04:36

I don't know that I'd go back to the metal minis over the finecast. It was as bad if not worse in most cases, the only exception maybe being the bubbles; metal minis never had bubbles.

But metal minis did obscure alot of detail, and miscasts were rarely small, it was a large portion of the mini. And even though you got a replacement, the old mini wasn't much good for anything. Atleast the finecast is easy enough to work with to convert, depending on the miscast.

Really what blows my mind though, is they did a run of these single special characters in plastic for Storm of Magic, and even the Island of Blood starter, the models are simple to put together and amazingly detailed. Why isn't this 'the future' instead of finecast?
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PostSubject: Re: Finecast Incubi-Haters gonna hate. [closed]   Sun Sep 11 2011, 05:08

It's board members blowjo... I mean they want to produce best minis in the world and since resin allows You to have better models (like Forgeworld), why not? Of course for premium quality You must pay more*.

I'm pretty sure that SoM casters were only released in plastic because new addon would (well, GW hope so) attract new players (despite obvious fact that WFB sales cliff dive from years, especially recently, check GW 2010-2011 financial report if it's still somewhere**). Worse thing is that if they would (will...) sell bad, we probably will see more miscast... I mean Finecast.

(I may only hope they would choke-a-refund-do and drop casting altogether, as failed experiment without way back to full metal minis [pewter heads/details with plastic would be cool tho, just like REAL scale models])






* One bit - Finecast isn't more expensive than metal "because it's new, they loaded gazillions in machines , it produce non-recycleable wastes etc." but "because". Annual price increase. Plastic models, books, accesories - everything got bonus %, sometimes two digit ones.

**But did profits go down? Erm... remember annual price increase? So answer for first question is "nope, they didn't". Yes, You pay for incompetence of Mr. Kirby so he would get hefty ammount of cash.

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PostSubject: Re: Finecast Incubi-Haters gonna hate. [closed]   Sun Sep 11 2011, 07:47

Wow, I'm really surprised at the sheer depths of hatred this is receiving. Seriously, I get that some people may dislike Finecast. That doesn't excuse threatening the designers/ceo's, the multitudes of insulting nicknames, and insulting those who do like it.
How about an upside for those of you who say it has none: it's a fraction of the weight. No more pinning those metal models who wouldn't stay together with only glue, now it's light enough to hold.
With that, I'm out of this discussion. Some people are just way too bitter about something that really doesn't deserve that amount of hatred.

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PostSubject: Re: Finecast Incubi-Haters gonna hate. [closed]   Sun Sep 11 2011, 11:52

I can happily pin a handful of models, when all it takes to fix a bent model is to twist it back to shape. I'll also happily buy metal nazgul for 22.50 as opposed to 26e for the rubbery miscast ones.

I've been doing games workshop games for about 20 years now. I've had one bad metal miscast and two bad metal finecasts in that time.

Oh yeah, I have 9 finecast minis and hundreds of metallics. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Finecast Incubi-Haters gonna hate. [closed]   Mon Sep 12 2011, 11:32

It is all about the perspective you have.

I have put 3 Yrrghuls together. None of them was free of bubbles. But the time assembly time was incredible (fast).

What stunned me the most was the fact how easy they could be converted. With a mug of hot water I had in no time 3 differnet ghuls standing there.

Sadly the time saved there went into filling bubbles...

I dearly hope they will soon fix these problems, since i see a lot of benefits in resin over metal.

But until they didn't fic these, i will stay highly suspicious on every model i buy...

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Nepenthe
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PostSubject: Re: Finecast Incubi-Haters gonna hate. [closed]   Mon Sep 12 2011, 16:56

Hydra wrote:
It is all about the perspective you have.

I have put 3 Yrrghuls together. None of them was free of bubbles. But the time assembly time was incredible (fast).

What stunned me the most was the fact how easy they could be converted. With a mug of hot water I had in no time 3 differnet ghuls standing there.

Sadly the time saved there went into filling bubbles...

I dearly hope they will soon fix these problems, since i see a lot of benefits in resin over metal.

But until they didn't fic these, i will stay highly suspicious on every model i buy...
My perspective is that I have 2 lhamaeans, who would've been ready to paint in 1 minute before, now I have to start messing with a bunch of hot and cold water cups and pray they stay the way I set them.

If I had to do it in the dark, it would be kind of like moving from digital photography back to film development. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Finecast Incubi-Haters gonna hate. [closed]   Mon Sep 12 2011, 17:07

I got my first Finecast minature. A Haemonculus model. Examining it, I see no bubble craters and I see no indication it is out of alignment or bent. Since I haven't yet processed it I haven't tried to assemble it so I do not know how the fit will be. From a purely appearance standpoint it looks fine. Feels a bit weird to the touch, but that's nothing.

I have two Lhamaeans inbound so we'll see how they work out. I still have a fair bit of trepidation with this stuff.

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PostSubject: Re: Finecast Incubi-Haters gonna hate. [closed]   Tue Sep 13 2011, 11:17

Well, my current Finecast is now an Archon (no problems), Urien (no problems), Astorath (no problems), and a Medusae (minor mold lines on the helmet, easily fixed). The fact that Urien was resin rather than metal drastically reduced the amount of time required to convert him (sawed in half, legs removed, Scourge wings added instead of vestigial arms).

We get that you've had bad experiences with Finecast. That doesn't excuse the threats I've seen directed at GW ("I've got a metal dreadnought with their name on it", and, if I recall, people saying they'd fire metal models from cannons at them). Personally, I find metal much, much more annoying and time-consuming to work with, as well as the fact that it's far, far heavier, and (I know you're going to disagree with this, but I think you're wrong on this point) more detailed.

Are they having some problems with quality? A little, but nothing that won't improve. For every person I see ranting and raving about the "horrible quality", it's usually nothing more than "it had small bubbles that were easily fixed", and I see just as many that don't seem to be having these devastating problems.
All this talk does is freak out potential buyers, making them terrified of the product-ruining mis-casts that they most likely won't get.

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PostSubject: Re: Finecast Incubi-Haters gonna hate. [closed]   Tue Sep 13 2011, 19:47

Closing this thread, it has less and less to do with DE specifically and more with the merits of, and problems with, Finecast. These have pretty much been covered at length here and on every other forum:

1) FC is lighter and easier to work with than metal
2) it may or may not produce finer detailed models
3) there have been many problems with FC miscasts
4) the miscast situation may or may not be improving with time

There is a more appropriate thread about Finecast in GW General Discussion, if anyone has anything new to add.
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