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 Experiment with a new kind of venom.

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The New AIDS
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PostSubject: Experiment with a new kind of venom.   Thu Apr 26 2012, 07:07

So, I recently finished my Razorwing and found that I have spare rockets left over. Now, I think these look really cool, and was thinking about ways I could incorporate them into things. Then I had it. An idea based on the good ol' vyper, a venom chassis with rockets mounted. Now I've thought of it, I REALLY want to give it a try. The thought of that delicate little vehicle running around blasting the nonsense out of stuff with fusillades of rockets deeply excite me in ways I cannot explain. So, here I go with the rules:

The Dark Eldar Storm Shadow:

Type: Vehicle, Skimmer, fast

Special rules: Aerial assault

Bs: 4 F: 11 S: 10 R: 10

Wargear: flicker Field, Four Monoscythe missiles, Twin linked Splinter rifle

Options:
The monoscythe missiles my be upgraded to any of the following:
Necrotoxin missile: 5 pnts
Shatterfield Missile: 5 pnts

The Twin linked splinter rifle may be upgraded:
To a splinter cannon: 10 pnts

The Vehicle may take the following upgrades:
Nightshields: 10pnts
Chain Snares: 5 pnts
envenomed Blades: 5 pnts

It takes up a fast attack slot and costs 80 points. What do you think?
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Saintspirit
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PostSubject: Re: Experiment with a new kind of venom.   Thu Apr 26 2012, 07:58

I think that in foundation it feels like an interesting idea, though I am not completely sure whether it should really begin with four missiles. I'm sort off wondering - can it really carry such a weight? Then again, the venom can carry seven dark eldar when including the gunner and pilot, so perhaps it isn't such a stretch.
Would be nice though with it having some sort of special missile (like the implosion for the voidraven).

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shamroll wrote:
Dang! I was hoping Tyranids followed the Pokemon naming idea. A big Carnifex running around just yelling "Carnifex! Carni-Carnifex!" followed by a squad of termagants all saying "Termagant" to each other.
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warhammerpaintservice
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PostSubject: Re: Experiment with a new kind of venom.   Thu Apr 26 2012, 08:44

i would go for 2 missiles since 4 seems a bit to much for a fast attack slot. also it needs to loose its transport capability pointwise it looks pretty solid

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Saintspirit
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PostSubject: Re: Experiment with a new kind of venom.   Thu Apr 26 2012, 08:49

Yes, that's pretty much what I had in mind too.

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shamroll wrote:
Dang! I was hoping Tyranids followed the Pokemon naming idea. A big Carnifex running around just yelling "Carnifex! Carni-Carnifex!" followed by a squad of termagants all saying "Termagant" to each other.
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The New AIDS
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PostSubject: Re: Experiment with a new kind of venom.   Thu Apr 26 2012, 09:36

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that, but since it isn't written up there I assumed people would know that it had no transport capacity.

And as for special missiles, I was thinking a S9 AP1 lance missile that is for hunting tanks. It would be a ten point upgrade instead of five (I might drop that to five seeing as 120 points is a bit much to invest in something like this).

I may drop the number of rockets to 2, but I'm planning to put them where the passengers would normally go (something like a mini manticore), and I think four would look damned cool.

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Lord Clazaryn
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PostSubject: Re: Experiment with a new kind of venom.   Thu Apr 26 2012, 12:27

If you want to put four missiles in it you should really up the points. Think about, the only thing that is missing from this thing at the moment is the two dark lances and it will be a razorwing which cost 65 more points, a whole venom. I would say make it 100 points with 4 missiles.

Also with your new missiles, note that the tau pay 10 points for a strength 8 ap2 missile that the vehicle can't fire, it needs a makerlight. So a s9 ap1 lance would be crazy overpowered. Either tone down the missile or pay at least double the points. At least!

Otherwise I like the idea, though I think 2 missiles would be more realistic. Creating rules is always hard, I've never tried it, but your doing well if this is your first try! Very Happy

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The New AIDS
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PostSubject: Re: Experiment with a new kind of venom.   Thu Apr 26 2012, 12:55

I did an updated avatar once. It was better.

I have been thinking about putting it up to 90, but paying 100 for something that essentially has one round of shooting seems excessive. For example, two darklances is fifty points on infantry. On a heicle they would cost more bacause vehicles can move and shoot. also, The Razorwing is fast.

But a change to a higher points value makes sense. Also, I don't want to tone the missiles down (because the dark eldar are better at making weapons than the tau or imperium (S8 AP3 for their one shot rockets), and these are big rockets (bigger than those fired by Eldar missile launchers at S8 AP3). raising the upgrade to 20 points seems reasonable, and with the 10 point base increase, this makes a Storm Shadow 170 points with the four rockets. after firing those, it has a cannon left. Or a twin linked splinter rifle. If the big missiles are 15 each, this makes the Storm Shadow 150 points. It has basically four shots now. So that seems reasonable.

Of course, this reasoning could be wrong. Mayhaps changing the AP1 to AP2. Or lowering the strength to 7. maybe.

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Lord Clazaryn
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PostSubject: Re: Experiment with a new kind of venom.   Thu Apr 26 2012, 13:11

Strength 7 lance would almost be a waste of points. The darklight curse at str8 is enough for most of us. 170 points is excessive so you could maybe take it down to str8 which would basically be a one shot lance for 10th points which would sound reasonable since your packing four.

The tau technology actually isn't that bad. Yeah the eldar are more sophisticated but it says that the DE are always looking for more exciting ways to kill things, not just the most efficient like the tau. That seems to even out the playing field between tau and DE and explains why they have better guns than us. I was more bringing the tau up as a points value point anyway...

Oh, and with the armour on this thing, I would think it would be better to have 10 all round, just because on our vehicles it is so hard to tell what is front or side, unlike those square boxes that the imperium have.

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The New AIDS
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PostSubject: Re: Experiment with a new kind of venom.   Thu Apr 26 2012, 13:37

Yeah, true with the armour. That 11 value is a typo.

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Levitas
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PostSubject: Re: Experiment with a new kind of venom.   Thu Apr 26 2012, 16:37

How about a venom that rocks two disintegrators and carries maybe 2 missiles.

The Bladevain missile:

Causes D3, Str 4 wounds on all enemy units it passes through before detonating in a shower of blades ( Str 4 , AP5, large blast, rending)

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Sami
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PostSubject: Re: Experiment with a new kind of venom.   Thu Apr 26 2012, 17:28

Don't mind the 4 missiles, but would limit it to only being able to fire one per turn to represent the gunner loading another one. Means it can't alpha-strike the hell out of things. For the conversion, you can have the "spare" missiles in a rack where a passenger or two wound usually stand on the floor behind the gunner.

You could also get away with the AT missile doing it this way as you won't be able to blast open tanks with a barrage of 4 of them in a single turn.
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The New AIDS
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PostSubject: Re: Experiment with a new kind of venom.   Fri Apr 27 2012, 04:47

Ok, so here are the updated rules:

The Dark Eldar Storm Shadow:

90 pnts, Fast attack

Type: Vehicle, Skimmer, fast

Special rules: Aerial assault, Massive Recoil

Bs: 4 F: 10 S: 10 R: 10

Wargear: flicker Field, Four Monoscythe missiles, Twin linked Splinter rifle

Options:
The monoscythe missiles my be upgraded to any of the following:
Necrotoxin missile: 5 pnts
Shatterfield Missile: 5 pnts
Darkfire Missile: 15 pnts

Darkfire Missile:

R: 30" S: 9 AP: 1 Heavy 1, Lance, One shot

The Twin linked splinter rifle may be upgraded:
To a splinter cannon: 10 pnts

The Vehicle may take the following upgrades:
Nightshields: 10pnts
Chain Snares: 5 pnts
envenomed Blades: 5 pnts

Massive Recoil:
Due to the stresses on the chassis, and the weight of the vehicle, the storm shadow is only capable of firing two rockets per turn. If two rockets are fired, no other weapons may be fired. If only one is fired, the twin-linked splinter rifles or splinter cannon may also be fired.

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Saintspirit
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PostSubject: Re: Experiment with a new kind of venom.   Fri Apr 27 2012, 08:28

I think it sounds quite reasonable with the Massive Recoil and the cost, although I'd say the Darkfire Missile should be Ap2 as all other lance weapons, including the Void Mine which is the relatively most similar to the Darkfire (not including the Heat Lance, which after all is a melta weapon as well), though perhaps the Darkfire should be a blast weapon. Not sure.

And a bit off-topic - your signature is great. Very Happy

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shamroll wrote:
Dang! I was hoping Tyranids followed the Pokemon naming idea. A big Carnifex running around just yelling "Carnifex! Carni-Carnifex!" followed by a squad of termagants all saying "Termagant" to each other.
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Lord Clazaryn
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PostSubject: Re: Experiment with a new kind of venom.   Fri Apr 27 2012, 09:03

Agreeing with Saintspirit, that weapon should be ap2. There is no logical reason for it to be ap1 apart from you wanting such a weapon, admittedly it would be kind of awesome. Also, I would increase the range of the missile to 48 inches along with all our other missiles. Otherwise, I think I might need to convert one of these! Very Happy

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The New AIDS
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PostSubject: Re: Experiment with a new kind of venom.   Fri Apr 27 2012, 14:39

My logic is that it is like a heat lance, but more powerful. It essentially hits an enemy vehicle and sends a powerful stream of anti-matter fueled fusion straight through the hull into the vehicle, irradiating and/or melting the crew, controls and engine.

The range is a bit short because if it was any longer, think of the ridiculous threat-range this thing would have. I may increase it to 36". But it's a heavy warhead.

I didn't just give it AP 1 because I wanted to. I would have made it a rocket propelled voidmine in that case. It is more akin to a heat lance than a voidmine. The reason the strength is so high is because what would be a blast weapon is concentrated in a needle thin line.

Anyways, thanks for the criticism guys, it really helped. Now I just have to make the damned thing.

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Saintspirit
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PostSubject: Re: Experiment with a new kind of venom.   Fri Apr 27 2012, 15:56

Ahaa, I see. If so is the case though, I'd say it should get some more appropriate name, making it sound more like a fusion weapon - so that we others understand what kind of weapon it is. Wink Also, wouldn't it get the melta rule as well, if so? Then again, that might make it slightly OP.

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shamroll wrote:
Dang! I was hoping Tyranids followed the Pokemon naming idea. A big Carnifex running around just yelling "Carnifex! Carni-Carnifex!" followed by a squad of termagants all saying "Termagant" to each other.
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The New AIDS
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PostSubject: Re: Experiment with a new kind of venom.   Fri Apr 27 2012, 16:12

It was because it would be ridiculous to have melta, lance and S9. This vehicle isn't THAT fluffy. I'm not insane, just imbalanced.

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PostSubject: Re: Experiment with a new kind of venom.   Fri Apr 27 2012, 16:19

No, that is true of course. I just feel that if it is a fusion (melta) weapon and is going to have Ap1, it feel more appropriate to have melta - perhaps just melta and not lance, considering what fluff it supposedly has? I am not really sure, but I frankly feel that sometimes background is just as important as the rules.

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shamroll wrote:
Dang! I was hoping Tyranids followed the Pokemon naming idea. A big Carnifex running around just yelling "Carnifex! Carni-Carnifex!" followed by a squad of termagants all saying "Termagant" to each other.
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