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 Is an all kabalite army possible?

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ant7
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PostSubject: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Wed Apr 18 2012, 02:42

I am new to DE, I have played 40K for many years and been away for a while and decided to jump back in.
So what do you think? Is it possible or a waste of time? I really like the models and the thought of a ton of raiders just warping into existence and laying waste in raiders.
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PostSubject: Re: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Wed Apr 18 2012, 04:20

Completely possible and effective... Dark light or venom spam both work!

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Wed Apr 18 2012, 05:22

In fact it's one of the more competitively popular builds.

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PostSubject: Re: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Sat Apr 21 2012, 00:13

Thanks for the replies, how is close combat handled with this style of army?
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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Sat Apr 21 2012, 01:44

it's not... do anything you can to avoid cc with kabalites of any flavor, they get eaten alive.

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PostSubject: Re: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Sat Apr 21 2012, 03:41

The usual close combat answer is;

Field 2 or so units of Wyches to serve as tarpits.
or
Just dakka everything with splinter fire until nothing is left to assault you.

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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Sat Apr 21 2012, 05:29

Quote :
The usual close combat answer is;

Field 2 or so units of Wyches to serve as tarpits.

Would you consider wyches a kabalite unit?

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PostSubject: Re: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Sat Apr 21 2012, 10:26

Officially, no - but I wouldn't call a Wyche army that had 1-3 Trueborn squads in it not Wych themed either. It's very normal for Kabals to hire Wyches, and Wyches in a Kabalite army doesn't make it not Kabalite in my opinion.

If you want to go with pure Kabalite to the point you run no Coven or Wych affiliated units at all than use option 2.

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PostSubject: Re: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Sat Apr 21 2012, 11:27

If you wanted a more fluffy CC unit then take Incubi. They are hired by the Kabals as bodygyards. They won't tarpit as well as Wyches, and they fall over their own feet when charging something in a bush, but on the charge they will on average kill an MEQ each (3 attacks, 2 hits, 1 wound, power weapon).
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PostSubject: Re: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Sun Apr 22 2012, 05:09

Incubi would probably be the best choice, although shooting it to death is just as good as trying to tie something up

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PostSubject: Re: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Sun Apr 22 2012, 17:28

My counter to that is tying up is superior for a shooting army.

Incubi are relatively expensive and require certain support elements for maximum functionality - if you don't pay to make them killers than they are not good at tying anything up.

Wyches are relatively quite affordable, serve a functional dual purpose in shooting armies as they can bring HWGs to help pop vehicles, don't compete with the very valuable Elite slot which is highly important to a Kabal shooting army, and require nothing but physical bodies to tie stuff up.

In addition, tying stuff up really is the optimal win for shooting armies as it lets you shoot them, assault them for tie up, forget about them during the opponent's round, and then have an additional chance to shoot at them, all of that playing to your army's overall desire to be shooting things, which means all your points spent in shooting are functional. Paying for Incubi means you're buying an assault force - a top notch, high end, pricy, assault force in our codex - that means you're starting to build an assault army, not a shooting one, and the points there can get prohibitive in maxing out your shooting potential.

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PostSubject: Re: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Sun Apr 22 2012, 17:53

^^^ agreed wholeheartedly. As much as I love Incubi they have no place in a predominantly shooty list. If you're only going to run 1 or 2 assault units Wyches serve the purpose better and for less.

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PostSubject: Re: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Sun Apr 22 2012, 19:29

It really depends on whether or not you want a "all kabalite" army, or if you're willing to mix in some other parts of DE society. If your answer is "kabalites forever ftw", then you should completely forget about assault... it's not what they're meant to do and they aren't really any good at it.

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PostSubject: Re: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Sun Apr 22 2012, 19:38

Both of the above posts are spot on to the discussion in my opinion. You can't do a dash of Incubi in an army and really have it work out, so if you refuse to use Wyches or any non-Kabal unit in your build you really just have to give assault a pass (or accept that your assault is going to be very light and more of a cleanup unit than an actual main threat - which is how the Duke and the Warriors he's paired with works in my Kabal army; they assault, but only units already weakened by shooting)

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PostSubject: Re: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Fri Apr 27 2012, 03:12

is another option for the assualt spot to take Vect or Malys? Sit either one in a raider and the assualt if the enemies eliete units get too close to your fire base. Vect is expensive but in addition to being the king of HtH he brings a few other tricks to the table. Malys would be the cheaper version if you are short on points. Both of these characters have the real potential to ruin your oponents elite units and characters on the charge.
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PostSubject: Re: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Sat Apr 28 2012, 03:54

If the plan is to stick all Kabalite and avoid Incubi then Vect is an option. Malys is not - Malys can't win assaults all by herself and is more of a support piece to an already functional assault build. Vect can certainly work as a one man show.

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PostSubject: Re: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Sat Apr 28 2012, 09:06

Quote :
Vect can certainly work as a one man show.

I'll second that

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PostSubject: Re: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Sat Apr 28 2012, 14:33

depends on what he hits though. Im not saying Vect isnt good, but if he hits say... 30 orks (heck, even 30 termaguants) Im pretty sure you best kiss his ass goodbye.

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PostSubject: Re: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Sat Apr 28 2012, 20:34

If you take vect, you're probably going to take a nice little retinue to back him up, and soak up a few wounds... 8 warriors and a syb with PGL should give him the oomph he would need to be able to take out a entire 30 man ork or 'gaunt squad.

Mathhammer?

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PostSubject: Re: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Sat Apr 28 2012, 22:04

@Shadow - let's be fair though, there is actually an exceedingly small number of special characters that could solo a 30 Ork boy mob, and in the grand scheme of ICs Vect is probably a pretty decent option to try it with, certainly in the upper 33% I'd imagine.

@Ruke - Vect + 8 Warriors and a Syb with PGL vs. 30 Orks?

Okay...

Vect swings first - 7 attacks w. re-rolls - 6.22 hits - 4.14 dead Orks.
Warriors and Syb swing next - 17 attacks - 8.5 hits - 2.83 wounds - 2.36 dead Orks

I'll admit, probably for the DE it's smart to have had Vect base the Nob, and for the Orks it would be smart to swing the Nob into the Warriors first unless the boyz had already punctured Vect's Shadowfield. I'll just showcase the boyz versus the Warriors;

Call it 7 dead boyz (rounding up)
12 Boyz remain (we'll call them Shootas since that's the better foot mob)

12 Boyz - 24 attacks - 12 hits - 8 wounds - 5.33 after saves.
Nob - 3 attacks - 1.5 hit - 1.25 wound

Orks take 6-7 dead.
Inflict 6-7 dead in return.

Decent Ork win chance right there, especially if they only lose 6 boyz and not 7.
Wyches or Incubi would tend to allow Vect to roflol the mob though.

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PostSubject: Re: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Sun Apr 29 2012, 00:36

Yeah, but if you're looking for an all kabalite army, you gotta work with what you have... I really would suggest just pretending like it's impossible to assault all together...


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PostSubject: Re: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Sun Apr 29 2012, 00:50

You could certainly build a Kabal unit that, plus Vect, could handle 30 Orks. Certainly a tricked out assault Trueborn squad could do it, but even a Kabal Warrior squad kitted out with assault in mind could do it with only semi-serious casualties.

But, yeah, at the core I'd say avoid assault if you want an optimized pure Kabal build.

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PostSubject: Re: Is an all kabalite army possible?   Wed May 02 2012, 13:23

ant7 wrote:
Thanks for the replies, how is close combat handled with this style of army?

Was just looking through the codex and noticed that Trueborn can have CC weapon and Splinter pistol for free.
They already have 2 base attacks, so that will give them 3, 4 on the charge. They can also take plasma grenades, and the Dracon can have PGL and Agonizer. This will basicly make them Bloodbrides (Without the 4++ and special weapons though). They will be fighting with the Blasterborne for an Elite slot, and at 13 pts per model is quite expensive. But if you really want a CC unit to fit the theme, this might be one option.
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