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 Raiders: Does and Don'ts?

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Meddy
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PostSubject: Raiders: Does and Don'ts?   Thu Apr 12 2012, 15:54

Straight off the bat guys, I've already got my compulsory 3 Ravagers otherwise I wouldn't be asking this:

Disintergrator Cannons or Dark Lances?
Flickerfield or Nightsheild?

Thanks in advance guys.
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Despiciens
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders: Does and Don'ts?   Thu Apr 12 2012, 16:01

I run my raiders naked with dark lances. No real need to waste points on giving your transports an invulnerable save, they should be getting a 4+ cover most of the time, and you need as many dark lances as you can squeeze into a list.
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lonewolf
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders: Does and Don'ts?   Thu Apr 12 2012, 16:38

For the minimal cost of the flicker field why wouldn't you take it?
The way I see it, we all know our transports are fragile but for a tiny cost in points I have a chance of out lasting another turn. It might be making my paper aeroplane more expensive but it does dramatically increase it's survivability. And there isn't always cover to be had.
That being said that's the only upgrade I'd ever give it

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders: Does and Don'ts?   Thu Apr 12 2012, 16:39

Dark Lances and Flickerfields, Nighshields sometimes.

Basically with Dark Lance vs Dissie it is a no brainer. You can never have too much AT. On top of that Dark Lances ID most multi-wound models. A win/win in my book.

I always put flickerfields on my raiders because I find that unless it is something that absolutely has to get into close combat T2 (archon/incubi) to make its points back, Im normally just moving 12 to get that extra dark lance shot off. If a flickerfields saves 1 vehicle, it has made its points back.

As for Nightshields. I am used to them being our only defense (old book) and I love them to death, but at 80 pts for an AV 10 open topped vehicle... I find them to be super pricey. Sure, I think they are amazing, but are too situation to include in an all comers list.

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Darkgreen Pirate
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders: Does and Don'ts?   Thu Apr 12 2012, 16:51

I agree with SR on most points, however Dissies vs horde armies can be nice.

If you are zooming upfield then nightshields are almost all but useless as almost everything can glance us, and if you are in assault deployment range, 6" range reduction isn't going to help very much (maybe against meltas). Mind you against Necros with their standard 24" range they can make their points back.

Ive been fielding my RJF with dissies and running it as a "super venom". I find nightshields help there as 48" missile range equals most of our opposition's AT. So far so good.

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Siticus the Ancient
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders: Does and Don'ts?   Thu Apr 12 2012, 16:52

Always Flickerfield. Never leave your home without it. It's been four games in a row now where my only Ravager sits there the entire game and soaks up enemy fire, while getting crew shaken/stunned results all the time. Phasing in and out of reality is too nifty to give up.

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Meddy
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders: Does and Don'ts?   Thu Apr 12 2012, 17:01

Thanks guys, so DL and FF everytime yeah?
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders: Does and Don'ts?   Thu Apr 12 2012, 17:18

As far as i am concerned, a raider is 70 points and comes with a 5++ like the venom Wink

I have never seen a situation where i wanted a dissie over a DL...

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PostSubject: Re: Raiders: Does and Don'ts?   Thu Apr 12 2012, 19:48

Quick rundown of my view on things:

Dark Lance or Disintergrator? I find that in most metas there is a hell of a lot of transports out there and you need all the anti tank you can get. Don't count on one Dark Lance shot popping a tank each go but the more the better. Disintegrators are great for anti MEQ and obviously TEQ but I prefer the route of death by armour save using splinter weaponry.

Flickerfield and/or Night Shields? I give everything a Flickerfield, there's something ever so reassuring that no matter what hits you, even in combat, you get a 5+ save. There is advice to be taken that you can get a better save naturally by either going flat out or using cover to your advantage, I just like the fact I can put my vehicles where I want and still get a save. Comparing Night Shields to Flickers isn't fair in some respects but if you're going for both then that Raider is getting very expensive very quickly. I don't really bother with Night Shields as I find whatever is shooting my Raiders, normally Autocannons, Lascannons and Missile Launchers doesn't care about them one bit.

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Levitas
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders: Does and Don'ts?   Thu Apr 12 2012, 23:06

Flicker field on everything for me.

Night shields on vehicles that I intend to sit back, like Ravagers and Splinter cannon Trueborn in venoms. But as pointed out the real heavy weapons will still get you, but they do cut out cheap double tap take downs. Which is not a cool way to see a Ravager or Venom bow out.

Dis cannons are great but available on the 'wrong' platforms. Man, they would be sweet on venoms, but on Raiders you need the lance to pop transports.

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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders: Does and Don'ts?   Thu Apr 12 2012, 23:12

Meddy wrote:
Thanks guys, so DL and FF everytime yeah?
Every day, twice on Sunday Twisted Evil

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Raneth
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders: Does and Don'ts?   Fri Apr 13 2012, 00:33

Always DL. When it's just 5 guys with a Blaster on top I tend not to bother with the FF (or NS for that matter).

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PostSubject: Re: Raiders: Does and Don'ts?   Fri Apr 13 2012, 00:53

Massaen wrote:
As far as i am concerned, a raider is 70 points and comes with a 5++ like the venom Wink

I have never seen a situation where i wanted a dissie over a DL...

For me, Venoms cost 65 points and come with 12 shots. I think I've even stopped writing "w/ Splinter Cannon" on my lists!

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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders: Does and Don'ts?   Fri Apr 13 2012, 03:03

Oh, hello there Smile
New to the forum, but certainly not to the army.

I always take min with FF and NS even if they sit in the back and shoot. Being able to comfortably out-range 24" shots after movement is factored in is very beneficial for me.

Use terrain or your own vehicles to your advantage (for 4+ cover) and you should be able to keep these guys alive faster than FF most of the time. However, should you get hit, 5+ is nothing to scoff at.

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Lord Clazaryn
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders: Does and Don'ts?   Fri Apr 13 2012, 12:35

Dark Lance and Flicker Field every time, just for something different. If people like ESE and Sky Serpent use them, its good enough for me. Night Shields on transports just aren't worth it. On Razorwings its a good buy if you've got the points spare, ravagers, yeah I can see the reasoning there. Raiders, no point. Think about it, Wyches should be rushing forward to assault, Warriors should be getting that blaster in range, either way you are well into their firing range and they can move towards you anyway. On to top it all off it makes those transports suddenly exceedingly expensive, points you could be spending somewhere else. I won't ramble on with a dissertation about FFs, people have already done that, but I can say that if rumours are true about next edition, then FFs will be practically mandatory so you should start using them now if you haven't already.

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Levitas
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders: Does and Don'ts?   Fri Apr 13 2012, 15:47

Whats interesting is the Forge World stuff comes with FFs as fitted as standard. I'm of the opinion that they should be like that on all DE vehicles and should be free.

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warhammerpaintservice
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders: Does and Don'ts?   Fri Apr 13 2012, 16:19

DL vs Disintergrator:
hands down DL for me

Flicker vs night:
flicker always night only when i need to get up close and personal (which is always never)
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V'rach
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders: Does and Don'ts?   Fri Apr 13 2012, 19:17

Leaving commoragh without a flickerfield is like going to battle with only a dressing gown and a mug of hot chocolate, NEVER forget it. And as for the dark lance vs disintegrator, dark lances all the way, better at killing tanks and better at killing terminators and just about all other high armour units. So they actually do disentegrators job better than the disintegrators (unless your against a horde army when dark lances are pretty useless at most things)

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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders: Does and Don'ts?   Fri Apr 13 2012, 20:10

warhammerpaintservice wrote:
DL vs Disintergrator:
hands down DL for me

Flicker vs night:
flicker always night only when i need to get up close and personal (which is always never)

You don't get close with Raiders? Not a Wych fan I'm assuming..

Even still, for me, I'm always for NS > Flicker, but both are nice.
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