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steev
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PostSubject: Was I right to refuse to play?   Sat Mar 31 2012, 08:53

Hi guys. I would like your opinions on whether or not you think it was acceptable for me to refuse to play a game at a mini-tourny.

Once a month I play in a mini-tourny at my FLGS, it is a one day afair, 3 games, 1750pts, no comp, promoted as a friendly compitition. Must guys that turn up play fun but competitive armies, so not A grade but will still put up a fight. I, like most of the regulars play for fun and have a good laugh. One guy usually always wins but that is because he is a good player rather than that his army is better than anybody elses, and again we have a laugh about it.

At the last meet I faced against a spam DE army that took full advantage of no comp. After deploying with a sinking heart I quickly realised I was not going to enjoy this game so I said to my opponent, thanks but no thanks, I have better thngs to do with my time than play this game.

Was I wrong to refuse to play a game that I was going to hate playing?

btw, hi to Aaron if you on this forum Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Was I right to refuse to play?   Sat Mar 31 2012, 14:48

I would say if you did not want to play the game, then there was no problem. Personally though I think you should of played it. I hate comps. I think they ruin the game. I am also "that guy" that runs a templete army (sorta) and probably play a list that you would say "takes full advantage of no comp". When people see that and dont want to play, my only question to them is "why not?" Even if you are going to lose, you can always learn from those losses and become a better player. Each loss gives you knowledge to use to fight your opponent again, or to help you tweak your list into a more optimized army. It would of made you a better player.

Also my question to you is why would you quit? Its just a game. Even though you felt he was unfair in the spirit of the tournament, he was in his full right to bring a competitive list. There was no comp, so no rules saying he couldnt. Also you might have to look at it as he wanted to play the game, or else he wouldnt of come.

Also just to set up and be like "you know what... I dont like you army... Im done. GG man" Is giving up before anything even started. You never know, the dice could of been in your favor, and the darklight curse might of hit him hard that day. We had a local tournament not too long ago, and on the final table a hardcore competitive tournament player was defeated by a relatively new player. It wasnt that the new player's list was better and more competitive, infact it should of been a bad match-up for him. It all came down to dice rolls and a bad judgement by the hardcore player. Stuff like that happens all the time in a game of chance. You should of just played for fun and see what would of happen.

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PostSubject: Re: Was I right to refuse to play?   Sat Mar 31 2012, 15:55

It was your right not to play him if you decided not to - it's a game.

It was his right to bring the army he wanted to as long as it fit within the comp rules of the mini-tourney - it's a game.

If you think they should ban those types of armies then get the rules changed.

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PostSubject: Re: Was I right to refuse to play?   Sat Mar 31 2012, 17:25

It was fully well within your rights not to play him.

However, I have to agree that I also dislike comp or selective comp tournaments. The DE competitive lists are mean lists, no two ways about it.

That being said, personally I jump at chances to play the most broken over the top armies I can find. Those kinds of games make me a better player, even if I do get ghetto stomped a few times along the way. It is after all just a game.

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PostSubject: Re: Was I right to refuse to play?   Sat Mar 31 2012, 18:40

GAR wrote:
It was fully well within your rights not to play him.

However, I have to agree that I also dislike comp or selective comp tournaments. The DE competitive lists are mean lists, no two ways about it.

That being said, personally I jump at chances to play the most broken over the top armies I can find. Those kinds of games make me a better player, even if I do get ghetto stomped a few times along the way. It is after all just a game.

my 2 pain tokens.
I'm with GAR on this one. To avoid this, my LFGS uses a system in which playets rate their opponents' armies. If you have a beef you are required to state why. If all of the opponents gripe a out the same thing then the player is docked points. It allows the players to self-police themselves while preventing crappy comp formula armies.

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PostSubject: Re: Was I right to refuse to play?   Sat Mar 31 2012, 20:48

Yup, I agree, it's obviously a regular thing with people who play there often, I take it this guy was new? Giving him the benefit of the doubt, he might have misjudged the type of armies that usually take part.

ESE's suggestion sounds like a good idea though, I remember reading a bat rep once where one of the participants had won GW's staff tournament, partly because his army was so well balanced and his opponents had rated him the most sportsmanlike.

As with the other comments though, putting yourself in a difficult situation is one of the best ways of improving as a player.

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PostSubject: Re: Was I right to refuse to play?   Sat Mar 31 2012, 22:59

cool thanks for the replies. After I got home and thought about it I kinda starting thinking along the lines mentioned above, but at the time I didn't see it that way. It also didn't help that in the previous game he tabled a weak necron player (a matchup that I would liken to Mike Tyson VS my sister) and then danced around boasting how much he enjoyed wiping him out. I guess I felt he did not deserve to play the last game and I was going to enjoy going home and doing the vacuming more than playing a chump.
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PostSubject: Re: Was I right to refuse to play?   Sun Apr 01 2012, 00:47

steev wrote:
It also didn't help that in the previous game he tabled a weak necron player (a matchup that I would liken to Mike Tyson VS my sister) and then danced around boasting how much he enjoyed wiping him out.
You didn't mention him acting like a jackass. In that case, I would have left early too. Bringing an army that isn't fun to play against is one thing, being a jerk on top of that is unacceptable. Evil or Very Mad

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PostSubject: Re: Was I right to refuse to play?   Sun Apr 01 2012, 00:50

to be fair, he was not a jackass, he just was not in the spirit of the day.
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PostSubject: Re: Was I right to refuse to play?   Wed Apr 04 2012, 16:03

Yes, you always have the right to refuse to play. It was suppose to be friendly and he wasn't playing that way, if it was promoted as friendly the organizers should have specified no spam list.

1.) I play to have fun
2.) I play to win
3.) If I can help if, I play fluffy armies and not spam list.

My 3rd preference is a big thing for me, if I can stick to my guns and play the way I would see the army playing then I do. Example, if I play the Duke my army is going to be primarily armed with venom blades, has a squad or 2 of wyches because he can get the "good" stuff, there are going to be as many raiders/ravagers as possible.

If I faced a spam list, I would have smiled devilishly and played him. Spam list seem to be the way of 40k lately, I'm seeing it more and more often. When I win against a list that seems like it can't fail because of spam, then it's so much more sweeter. Space marine command squad with 4 plasma rifles and an apothecary, meet my Incubi squad and taste pain. So what if my incubi die to shooting on his turn, I took away a stupidly built squad with no flavor to it! I ask people if they read 40k novels and if they do then I ask them which one is there favorite. *insert space marine novel* Did that command squad have all plasma guns? Nope, OK then my point is proven…
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PostSubject: Re: Was I right to refuse to play?   Wed Apr 04 2012, 16:51

not to divert from the thread but this is a pet peeve of mine. MasterofPuppets what is "fluffy" to you? Using your own example, let me prove to you that It could be considered "fluffy" to have an all plasma squad. Marines equip themselves to excell at what they are called to fight against (example if they were about to land on a planet infested with orks or nids, they would bring extra flamers.) Also a command squad is outside of the Force Organisation laid down by the Codex Astartes, so they have more leway with how they are equiped. So tactically you would think that a Command Squad would deck themselves out with 4 plasma guns to fight against Dark Eldar (we have light armor, which plasma hurts easily) and the apothicary would be there to heal any wounds given to the squad by the use of the arcanic technology.

On top of that there are also entire chapters that excell at plasma technology (ex Dark Angels, Iron Hands) So he could of simply been one of those chapters that has a preference towards them. And if he wasnt, there is also the who "DYI Chapter" Which means his personal fluff could of been all his command squads run around with plasma.

Dont get me wrong, I love seeing a fluffy army. But to look down on people for not playing a fluffy army is just as bad as those that look down on people who dont play competitive lists. "Spam Lists" as you call them do well because of the reliability of numbers. Probability works out that the more chances you have at something, the more likely it will happen. Plus you dont know how that person thinks. Maybe his Marine army has access to a ton of razorbacks that they keep well maintained? Why would you not bring transports with guns to a battle? These things need to be considered before you judge others.

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PostSubject: Re: Was I right to refuse to play?   Wed Apr 04 2012, 17:48

Shadows Revenge wrote:
not to divert from the thread but this is a pet peeve of mine. MasterofPuppets what is "fluffy" to you? Using your own example, let me prove to you that It could be considered "fluffy" to have an all plasma squad. Marines equip themselves to excell at what they are called to fight against (example if they were about to land on a planet infested with orks or nids, they would bring extra flamers.) Also a command squad is outside of the Force Organisation laid down by the Codex Astartes, so they have more leway with how they are equiped. So tactically you would think that a Command Squad would deck themselves out with 4 plasma guns to fight against Dark Eldar (we have light armor, which plasma hurts easily) and the apothicary would be there to heal any wounds given to the squad by the use of the arcanic technology.

On top of that there are also entire chapters that excell at plasma technology (ex Dark Angels, Iron Hands) So he could of simply been one of those chapters that has a preference towards them. And if he wasnt, there is also the who "DYI Chapter" Which means his personal fluff could of been all his command squads run around with plasma.

Dont get me wrong, I love seeing a fluffy army. But to look down on people for not playing a fluffy army is just as bad as those that look down on people who dont play competitive lists. "Spam Lists" as you call them do well because of the reliability of numbers. Probability works out that the more chances you have at something, the more likely it will happen. Plus you dont know how that person thinks. Maybe his Marine army has access to a ton of razorbacks that they keep well maintained? Why would you not bring transports with guns to a battle? These things need to be considered before you judge others.

I thought my example was pretty good about giving a flash look into what fluffy is. There's a whole story about the Warhammer 40k universe, building my list to fit like a puzzle piece into that story is how I play and enjoy friendly games. Please refer to The Dukes background story for the quick example of how I would build that list. Would it be fun to play? Yes. Would it still be competitive to play? Absolutely. Would your opponent look across the table and walk away from the table? I don't think so... I think a list built around a character or backstory is the most fun and interesting to play while keeping competitive.

Would it be friendly to have a carbon copy stamp, aka spam, of 6 troop choices all the same, 3 elite choices all the same, 3 fast all the same, 3 heavy all the same? I don't think so, in my opinion without being condescending at any level. So to have a Plasma gun command squad with apothecary attached by itself is not spam, but 2 is given the point you made.

"Spam" was used in the original post, in my opinion it is perceived as un-friendly carbon copy list.
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PostSubject: Re: Was I right to refuse to play?   Sun Apr 08 2012, 03:16

You have a right not to play, but I think to refuse to play someone at a tournament is in very bad form. Even if it's promoted as a "friendly" tournament, it' still a tournament. However, that may just be what I am used to, my area is very competitive, and we also have monthly one day tournaments with no comp, but there's an entry cost (usually $5-10) so if you refuse to play someone on account of another person's cheese we don't much care for you.

Can you fill us in with a few more details? Is it a pay to enter tournament? By "refuse to play" do you mean you forfeited?

In short, yes you had the *right* to but at a tournament I don't think it's right. .

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PostSubject: Re: Was I right to refuse to play?   Fri Apr 20 2012, 21:48

i stopped playing just before 3rd ed came out. when i was younger armies were more about what you wanted on a limited budget. so games were rarely spam, unless thats what the race was. I only got back into the game 3 years ago, most of my first 10 games in 5th were an up hill battle with the learning curve, mostly getting flogged to death. often against guys my own age who've been playing lots since at least 4th ed. unashamed spammers included.

I had to rethink my strategies entirely.
i was so overwhelmed at the huge increase in the range and availability of the plastic boxed set, change in game dynamics and such that the future of war looked even bleaker than i remember.

I fought on. through bloody-gritted-teeth, and the agony of many a failed dice roll i really needed... eventually I prevailed!

the end of an all day gaming session i understand. spam army i dont.

sometimes spam is all i see. gotta get with the times.

you obviously dont take enough tanks sitting in one corner, full of infantry who never disembark, shooting the whole game. Sleep

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PostSubject: Re: Was I right to refuse to play?   Sat Apr 21 2012, 02:20

If I brought cheese to a casual tourney, I would expect my opponents to refuse to play with me. Similarly, if I see cheese at a non-competitive tourney, I'd refuse to play that person too.

Typically, the type of people that take advantage of no-comp are going to be the type of people that are not fun to play against. I've turned down a lot of casual games because people just wanted to test tournament GK and SW armies against my non-competitive DE to see how fast they could crush all my transports with Razorspam or Dreadspam or what have you.

I've never had a non-competitive tournament though. People typically bring the cheese at my FLGS, but there are sportsmanship and painting scores that you have to ace if you want to take the prize.

I personally don't mind comp. I do mind it when the person that wins a friendly local tournament is a guy that paid someone else to paint his army for max paint score, and then slapped a grin on his face to max out his sportsmanship while he brings an army and plays so viciously that he tables all opponents and gets max game points. If you're going to bring an army and be that voracious, at least have the decency to paint it yourself.
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PostSubject: Re: Was I right to refuse to play?   Sat Apr 21 2012, 05:00

I refuse to play fluffy armies at competitive tourneys. Those guys don't have any sense of the spirit of the event.

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PostSubject: Re: Was I right to refuse to play?   Sat Apr 21 2012, 07:06


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PostSubject: Re: Was I right to refuse to play?   Sat Apr 21 2012, 07:07

Ha ha I get it.

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PostSubject: Re: Was I right to refuse to play?   Sat Apr 21 2012, 10:41

CaptainBalroga wrote:

thats exactly what its like, spot on dude!

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