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 Desolator Ravager Variant

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abjectus
Kabalite Warrior


Posts : 225
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : rural area outside of Chicago, IL

PostSubject: Desolator Ravager Variant    Wed Mar 07 2012, 10:15

Heavy Support
Ravanger desolator 125pts
Bs:4 F:11 S:11 R:10
type: fast, skimmer, open-topped
weapons: Desolator

Desolator (Maximal shot) range:36" Str:7 Ap:2 Heavy 1, 5" blast
Desolator (pulsed shots) range:36" Str:5 Ap:2 Heavy 6

Idea inspired by comments in the new vs old vehicle thread. Old vdr would put prce of weapon as equal to 3 lances, but that would take away from reaper to much, on other hand I can't see it costing more then warp hunter. Upgrade options would be same as ravager.

A throw back Dissie ravanger would be 120pts with 3 new dissie with option to fire as plasma cannon added. The lance didn't change and the old dissie was +5pts, so still +5pts for each blast shot, weaker fire option improving shouldn't matter much for points.

Any idea what 3-5 dissie ravagers would have for special rule in a apoc formation?
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V'rach
Hellion
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Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : over your dead body

PostSubject: Re: Desolator Ravager Variant    Wed Mar 07 2012, 17:19

Souns ok, however i dont see the point of the desolator cannon pulsed shots. i would have to say pulsed shots is completely pointless as it has the same charictaristics as the current dissie exept due to the fact that this thing only has one desolator, isnt as effective as three current dissies on a ravager whice knowone takes anymore (i think so anyway) because its not very effective. The points cost is high enough to make the pulsed shot option range 36 str 5 ap 2 assault 12 which gives it the ability to wipe out most Infantry out pretty easily (this is 20 pts more than a standard ravager, make it worth those points). But the large blaat
option is pretty good actually and is a brilliant idea, would you mind if i used it on my DE super heavy (another topic in rules development).

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xzandrate
Kabalite Warrior
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Join date : 2011-05-20
Location : Northern Ontario

PostSubject: Re: Desolator Ravager Variant    Wed Mar 07 2012, 19:15

Comparibly, the weapons are over powered, or the vehicle is under priced.
This reads as a version of the Forgeworld DE Reaper, which comes in at 135. But this looses no range, or AP between weapon modes, and for less points. The lack of haywire compared to the base str/AP are comparible. As is I'd suggest it starts at 135 base. (unless you are secretly Matt Ward, then it's underpowered and who cares about balance)

The thing that made the old dissie ravager great was that without Aerial Assault, the dispersed mode giave you the 3 AP 3 defensive fire shots that you could still fire in combination with the one blast if you moved, while a stationary or slow moving ravager dropped 3 killer templates. If I were going to "borrow" rules to develop an old school dissie, I'd look at the necron Arks. Dispersed mode giving 3 shots targeting a different unit would be really nice.
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abjectus
Kabalite Warrior


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Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : rural area outside of Chicago, IL

PostSubject: Re: Desolator Ravager Variant    Wed Mar 07 2012, 20:13

The reaper comes in at 135 with a 5pt upgrade included, so more 130pts base.
The warp hunter in same book has a 5"blast that wounds on 2+, instant death/pen on 5+, glance on 3+. Doesn't need line of sight(and ignores most cover and void shields in apoc), f12, s12 and not open topped. So the warp hunter is better then desolator for same points(and same role), reaper worse(but different role) but 5pts more(10 with upgrade).

Add old codex scythes(str 5 version of poision blades) to desolator and make it 135pts like reaper maybe. gives it mandatory cool looking but not very useful upgrade like reaper.

I figured change in the pulsed shots profile from old wouldn't matter much. If the blast is a worse option why pay the extra points, and if the blast is still better why would the improvement in the weaker shot raise points? Unless I misunderstood and you where saying one ravanger with blast and 2 regular would be more like old school, that would make it 110pts a figure.

The name for desolator was from epic raiders dark eldar epic list. It was fitted to several superheavies in that fandex. There was no description of what it did, other then it was area damage weapon, but name made me think of huge disintegrator. Would be great if others used it on superheavies. Makes it seem more coherent if different diy are gathered together like bols did with lords of battle.

I keep the shot count on the desolator low(same as pulse disintegrator on Tantalus) because i wanted the 5" blast to be the main form used, with pulse to show link to disintegrator/parallel old disintegrator. Any more shots and it could be better then blast, pulse would be used vs small squads or ones spread out o large bases. Say 40mm base terminators spread 2" apart fire pulse, they move closer fire blast. 12 shots and blast wouldn't get used, and that is firepower of 200+pt tantaulus (albeit without the troop capacity and +1 f/s armour, would still be to similar for me.)

necron arks have the base weapon in multiples fire at different targets, I think a single main weapon and a splinter weapon battery on each side would be more fitting. Maybe a hull void lance and 3 shard carbines that fire togeter at diffrent target on each side sponson . I would figure about cost of ravanger+ whatever points for separate targeting. Not sure how much that is worth, I think tau have a upgrade for that, I don't have codex but that would be good start to estimate points from, 105+2xtau upgrade cost.
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