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gunnerboy1607
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PostSubject: Book help!   Sat Feb 18 2012, 13:57

(I know I posted in a different section, it's just i just needed some more answers and stuff, and that's is why I thought I should repost it somewhere else. And this section was one place I thought itd fit in....sorry for the bother but thanks guys. Help would be brilliant )
Hey everyone, it would be awesome if I can have some assistance.

It's just I have an English assignment coming up soon and includes me having to do a 10minute speech about a certain text. And lucky for me, I am in the sci-fi genre. Hence why I chose to read a 40k book. But the problem is, that I haven't read much of em. And I would just like to ask everyone if they have some ideas.

During this speech I will need to talk about:
1.) how the text fits in to the sci fi genre. (Pretty easy being 40k and all )
2.) socio-historical and cultural aspects
3.) how this text alludes to other texts that you have viewed or read.

But certain elements I should look out for, to make it easier for me to talk about:
1.)shows how science and tech can be abused
2.) utopian or dystopian
3.) concerns about ecological, political, tech, and environment issues. (main emphasis)
4.) quest for freedom and social justice
5.) reflect elements of the contemporary society
6.) rise of feminism
7.) ecological exploitation and degradation
8.) great psychological depth in characterization.

PLEASE EVERYONE!!! Suggest something that fits in with that. I do have one book in mind, but I am open to ideas. I really like the book "for the emperor" the one that's part of ciaphias cain novels. But please do, keep suggesting. And please if u have time. Put in a quick brief on how it fits in well to the criteria! Please it'll be great help!!!! Thanks!!!!

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PostSubject: Re: Book help!   Sat Feb 18 2012, 20:24

If you like Cain novels - I'd suggest 'Cain's Last Stand' as well. Not only does the book show a future society that is taken from peace to war - but the demagogue antagonist is a pretty clear mashup to Hitler/Mussolini and other dictators known for their speaking skills.

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gunnerboy1607
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PostSubject: Re: Book help!   Tue Feb 21 2012, 12:38

I'll take a look at the book Smile
Also, would the book planet kill be a good one to answer my questions? ( the one full of short stories)

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PostSubject: Re: Book help!   Tue Feb 21 2012, 20:04

Haven't read Planetkill - so can't help you there.

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PostSubject: Re: Book help!   Wed Feb 22 2012, 12:54

Other than ciaphias cains series, what other 40k novel would display these elements really well and help em explain it better?

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PostSubject: Re: Book help!   Wed Feb 22 2012, 15:39

Well Gaunt Ghosts. I suspect you can find it even in the Horus Heresy and at Wolfblade.
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PostSubject: Re: Book help!   Fri Feb 24 2012, 17:45

If I where you I wouldn't use a 40k book for an English assignment, they're popcorn lit. Light and fun, but they for the most part lack the substance that an a proper English professor. will be looking for. If you must, I'd suggest Horus Rising

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gunnerboy1607
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PostSubject: Re: Book help!   Sat Feb 25 2012, 12:43

I'm just in year 12, sooo in the USA, that might be equivalent to 4th year of high school, so the last year you take before u have to ego to uni/college. And the teacher wants a broad types of books, so I differed from everyone else Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Book help!   Sun Feb 26 2012, 12:03

I would generally agree with Vegas about avoiding 40k fiction for assignment work. As much as I like it there is very little actual substance to it. I tend to read it as my break between heavier stuff. From everything you said you need to look for I'd say go true sci-fi as you may struggle with 40k.

Try something along the lines of The Forever War, its not so much about the shoosting than the effects on the soldiers. That and it had FTL, lasers, and time travel. (And they meet good if you read the second book.) But yeah, I'd aim for less high-sci-fi/fantasy.

That said if you are dead set, Horus rising is probably your best bet, or Legion as its a bit more human.

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PostSubject: Re: Book help!   Sun Feb 26 2012, 13:18

Sorry preacher? Which books would be better?
The forever war is written by?
Horus rising, I'm thinking of doing fulgrim...is there a better Horus heresy book for this?
And is that legion book a 40k book? And what series is it part of if it is?

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PostSubject: Re: Book help!   Sun Feb 26 2012, 17:14

Sorry that's what I get from trying to type on a phone.

The Forever War (and Forever Peace and Forever Free) are by Joe Haldeman and are a great read.

Fulgrim is a fairly good choice, although it took me a couple of reads to like it. Its all a bit too "perfect" for my taste. But if you're looking for arrogance and the per suite of perfection its not bad. So generally I would say that Horus Rising is better than Fulgrim (as are probably all the first three: so Horus Rising, False Gods and Galaxy in Flames).

Legion is another Horus Heresy novel. It deals with the Alpha Legion and the Imperial Army and how these two interact on a campaign. I think it presents a more "human" approach to the HH than just the "god like" Astartes so it may be easier to work with. Personally it's one of my favorite HH novels.

However at the end of the day the choice is ultimatly yours and you want to pick something that interests you and you're not going to get bored doing. Razz

Hope this helps. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Book help!   Sun Feb 26 2012, 20:13

I'll second the Forever War suggestion, very good book. Starship troopers would be another classic that would appeal to 40k fan. (nothing like movie. Hamlet vs. The Simpsons Hamlet episode sized differences in content. Not saying movie or episode are bad, just not even close to original)

Two very good non-military sci-fi are The Windup Girl and Neruomancer. The Windup Girl goes very heavy into the dangers of genetic engineering, and affect on society and the environment.

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PostSubject: Re: Book help!   Mon Feb 27 2012, 06:29

Hmm ill take a look at the other horus heresy books Smile you dont happen to know any heresy books that deals with the exterminatus or like full on waste of lives do you? (or maybe im just being stupid, and thats all the heresy books pretty much? Razz)

Alright, everyones been saying forever war is a good book, soooo i need to look for that book!

i was thinking of doing irobot....but then i again, i think its too mainstream kind of thing :/

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PostSubject: Re: Book help!   Tue Feb 28 2012, 09:34

I have only read 3 of the horus heresy books, but 2 out of three involved exterminatus. The one that didn't kill worlds and wipe out entire species only had titan vs titan battle in urban area and hundreds of humans killed to test experimental technology. So, I would say nearly all the heresy books would show mass spending of lives. (waste depends on if outcome is worth it and/or if outcome could have been achieved with fewer deaths)
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PostSubject: Re: Book help!   Fri Mar 02 2012, 13:15

and if i may know, which 2 books were those?

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PostSubject: Re: Book help!   Fri Mar 02 2012, 21:10

The beginning of Horus Rising deals rather well witness how the Lunar Wolves make war. They approach an advanced human civilization calling itself the Imperium. When Horus' diplomat is killed he unleashes the full force of the Legion. It has the best first line of any HH novel..."I was there the day Horus killed the Emperor".

Alternativly the end of False Gods and then Galaxy in Flames deals with the Istavaan massacre, both the ambush of the Raven guard etc but also Horus and co cleaning house before hand, involving betrayal exterminatus and virus bombing.

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PostSubject: Re: Book help!   Sat Mar 03 2012, 08:21

The two I read besides Fulgrim were Mechanicum and Flight of the Eisenstein. Fulgrim and Flight of the Eisenstein showed genocide on xenos and the Istavaan battles/exterminatus. The mechanicum had the urban titan fight.
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PostSubject: Re: Book help!   Fri Mar 09 2012, 12:24

which one would be better for the assignment and a good read? GLAXY OF FLAMES OR FULGRIM??

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PostSubject: Re: Book help!   Fri Mar 09 2012, 15:38

I feel that Fulgrim is "better" by itself, but Galaxy in Flames is a better book if read along with False Gods and Horus Rising.

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PostSubject: Re: Book help!   Sat Mar 10 2012, 00:29

i know im starting to sound annoying! its just, cause my assignment is due in like 5 weeks and i still havent made a choice! im stuck between fulgrim and galay of flames or choosing a diff scifi book away from 40k...its just im more passionate about 40k, that i think it might be better for me to do that type of sbject. but the thing is, which one of those will be best that will cover all those elements at the top? :/

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PostSubject: Re: Book help!   Sat Mar 10 2012, 04:14

If you're facing a time crunch I submit it is intrinsic upon you to make a final decision of your own - you've received a lot of feedback, but no one is really going to make a choice for you other than yourself.

Given the option of Galaxy or Fulgrim i would tend to lean Fulgrim - there are functional areas to discuss art as regards war, interactions with other cultures, leadership, betrayal, there's some quite overt connections one could make to the Germans who 'looked the other way' during WWII as regards the Jewish solution, ends justifying means, and even the basic brother vs. brother dynamic that is a trope as old as time.

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PostSubject: Re: Book help!   Thu Mar 22 2012, 13:52

well iv partly made my choice...im not gonna do a 40k book.
although, has anyone read forever war, dune or stranger in a strange planet? haha and were back at the start...i have to choose between those.

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PostSubject: Re: Book help!   Thu Mar 22 2012, 17:31

'Forever War' I've heard good things about, but never read.
'Dune' I've read, and is an absolutely fantastic book if memory serves - however it is often considered wise to not read too far beyond it into the rest of the series, though I'm sure that is open to debate.
'Stranger in a Strange Planet' I've never heard of I'm afraid.

Are you still doing this for the same report / presentation you mentioned in your original post? Because if so then Dune definitely has themes which can be discussed, and fits within the questions you've been asked.

1.) Clearly
2.) Clearly
3.) Dependant on other what other texts you've read in class I suppose but one could probably relate most books to one another if one tried hard enough.

As for the themes, again - if memory serves - then Dune answers in spades
1.) I can't remember how much specific 'abuse' of technology there is, but seeing as such a matter is highly subjective, I'd say you are pretty well covered there.
2.) Again probably open to debate - and I can't remember which side of the line the galaxy as a whole falls in and you could discuss this one specific to Arrakis or beyond.
3.) Clearly. I'm going to write it twice for emphasis. Clearly.
4.) See 3.
5.) See latter part of 1 & beginning of 3.
6.) Hmmm, not necessari;y 'rise' but there's a lot of potential Feminist motifs or areas that could be discussed / considered as such.
7.) See 3 & 4.
8.) If memory serves, see 3, 4 & 7 - also the second book in the series 'Dune Messiah' would also cover this.

My apologies for not being more helpful with the other books, and / or insulting anyone's specific favourite book from the Dune series.
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