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 Help me clear up some beastmaster issues please

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jb7090
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PostSubject: Help me clear up some beastmaster issues please   Thu Jan 19 2012, 15:57

Hello everyone, after this next local tournament Im going to start messing around with a WWP list and I want to have all my ducks in a row, so to speak, on the rules regarding beastmaster packs and specifically how PFP affects them.

So, according to the new FAQ, the effect from the token only apply to the model with the PFP special rule, and since the beasts do not have that rule, even though they may receive pain tokens they can not make use of them. So the BM himself can have FNP and FC and Fearless. FNP and FC are self explanatory, and as per page 75 of the BRB under fearless USR it says that "As long as a fearless character stays with a unit that is not fearless, he loses this special rule."

So...whats the point even give the BM PFP special rule?
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Archeonlotet
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PostSubject: Re: Help me clear up some beastmaster issues please   Thu Jan 19 2012, 16:59

Since you can have 5 of them in a unit, they still benefit from the FnP and FC quite nicely. I'm unsure as to how Fearless would be handled as the beastmasters are not characters. Even if the unit does not benefit from Fearless (which is arguably the worst of the benefits), I think the PFP rule is quite helpful.
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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: Help me clear up some beastmaster issues please   Thu Jan 19 2012, 17:46

It does benefit.

Bit about losing Fearless is for IC joining squad - however if You have Fearless model that is part of unit, everybody in unit is Fearless.
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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Re: Help me clear up some beastmaster issues please   Thu Jan 19 2012, 22:21

@Local_Ork wrote:
It does benefit.

Bit about losing Fearless is for IC joining squad - however if You have Fearless model that is part of unit, everybody in unit is Fearless.

Bingo.

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jb7090
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PostSubject: Re: Help me clear up some beastmaster issues please   Thu Jan 19 2012, 23:39

Could you guys point that our for me in the rule book? The part where if one model has fearless then the entire unit does? A local DE player and I had this discussion a couple months ago and I deferred to him because he's been playing a lot longer than I have and he said the BM do not pass the fearless onto the entire squad.
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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: Help me clear up some beastmaster issues please   Fri Jan 20 2012, 00:24

p. 43 - morale checks.
You use highest LD in unit. Auto passing Morale checks (p. 75, Fearless) = highest LD in unit.
If one member of unit won't flee, then noone would.

I hope it make sense.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Help me clear up some beastmaster issues please   Fri Jan 20 2012, 04:54

Also, pretty much by definition, if you have tokens to make anything in the unit fearless, the highest Ld unit will also be a unit with fearless anyway - either a Beastmaster or whatever IC is attached.

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jb7090
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PostSubject: Re: Help me clear up some beastmaster issues please   Fri Jan 20 2012, 12:56

Thanks guys, much appreciated!
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jb7090
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PostSubject: Re: Help me clear up some beastmaster issues please   Fri Jan 20 2012, 13:38

@Archeonlotet wrote:
Since you can have 5 of them in a unit, they still benefit from the FnP and FC quite nicely. I'm unsure as to how Fearless would be handled as the beastmasters are not characters. Even if the unit does not benefit from Fearless (which is arguably the worst of the benefits), I think the PFP rule is quite helpful.

Id like to this separately.

I personally love me some fearless on a dedicated combat unit. Too many times have I thrown a unit of wyches at something scary in order to hold it up for a couple rounds only to have them take 2-3 wounds and break thus giving the nasty thing I wanted them to tarpit a free d6 movement as well as the loss of the squad. I'll take fearless wounds against 4+ with FNP all day as long as I can guarantee that unit will stay right where I want em.

With that being said, on ranged units I usually want them to break and the have a chance to rally and continue shooting.
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jb7090
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PostSubject: Re: Help me clear up some beastmaster issues please   Fri Jan 20 2012, 15:54

@Thor665 wrote:
Also, pretty much by definition, if you have tokens to make anything in the unit fearless, the highest Ld unit will also be a unit with fearless anyway - either a Beastmaster or whatever IC is attached.

Fearless IC's dont pass that onto a non-fearless unit Sad
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Archeonlotet
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PostSubject: Re: Help me clear up some beastmaster issues please   Fri Jan 20 2012, 17:33

@jb7090 wrote:
I personally love me some fearless on a dedicated combat unit. Too many times have I thrown a unit of wyches at something scary in order to hold it up for a couple rounds only to have them take 2-3 wounds and break thus giving the nasty thing I wanted them to tarpit a free d6 movement as well as the loss of the squad. I'll take fearless wounds against 4+ with FNP all day as long as I can guarantee that unit will stay right where I want em.

With that being said, on ranged units I usually want them to break and the have a chance to rally and continue shooting.

You don't get the wyches dodge 4++ against No Retreat! wounds. Dodge is only valid against close combat attacks. Since No Retreat! wounds are not specifically classified as such, you are only allowed your 6+ armor and FnP.

There are times when I like having Fearless and times I wish I could fail a morale check. There are never times where I wish I didn't have FnP or FC. I have also been in situations where Fearless has actually hindered me. That is one of the reasons it is the worst of the benefits.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Help me clear up some beastmaster issues please   Fri Jan 20 2012, 18:12

@jb7090 wrote:
@Thor665 wrote:
Also, pretty much by definition, if you have tokens to make anything in the unit fearless, the highest Ld unit will also be a unit with fearless anyway - either a Beastmaster or whatever IC is attached.

Fearless IC's dont pass that onto a non-fearless unit Sad
Yes they do. It's not a rule marked with an asterisk, and if the IC is joined to the unit when assault begins they are considered one unit during the combat as far as leadership goes.

EBWOP - actually, reading the rule I see the point...derp on me.

Just leave alive one Beastmaster then and it will all still work out - and you should be doing that anyway.


Last edited by Thor665 on Fri Jan 20 2012, 18:14; edited 1 time in total
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jb7090
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PostSubject: Re: Help me clear up some beastmaster issues please   Fri Jan 20 2012, 18:13

Yeah I mis typed, I meant the 4+ from FNP
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jb7090
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PostSubject: Re: Help me clear up some beastmaster issues please   Fri Jan 20 2012, 18:14

@Thor665 wrote:
@jb7090 wrote:
@Thor665 wrote:
Also, pretty much by definition, if you have tokens to make anything in the unit fearless, the highest Ld unit will also be a unit with fearless anyway - either a Beastmaster or whatever IC is attached.

Fearless IC's dont pass that onto a non-fearless unit Sad
Yes they do. It's not a rule marked with an asterisk, and if the IC is joined to the unit when assault begins they are considered one unit during the combat as far as leadership goes.

Pg 75" However as long as a fearless character stays with a unit that is not fearless, he loses this special rule."
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Help me clear up some beastmaster issues please   Fri Jan 20 2012, 20:02

Read above - I beat you to it.

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