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 Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart

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Hekatrix


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PostSubject: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Wed Jan 18 2012, 01:57

Looking at Lady Malys and her Crystal Heart ability, would she not make an excellent addition to a Death Star of Archon and Incubi?

Being completely immune to the effects of psychic powers, must be quite valuable, given the current meta. Looking closer at it, what exactly would we prevent? Also and more importantly, what are the powers that would still go off?

The RAW is "...completely immune to the effects of psychic powers....". So the obvious ones are going to be things attack or inflict damage on us ie: GK Hammerhand, Might of Titan etc, Eldar's Doom, Daemons Lash of Submission just to name a few. There are a tonne more. But want about the other side of the coin, where a psychic power create Invul saves and bubbles when the Malys squad attacks???

"...Immune to the effects...." The invul is the effect of a psychic power, and the squad is immune to the effect, so therefore the Invul cannot go off......?


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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Wed Jan 18 2012, 02:08

Malus is immune to attacks affecting her. An invulnerable save power isn't being cast on her, therefore it isn't nullified by her ability.

To put it another way, someone can be immune to psychic powers, but a boulder dropped telepathically above them will still crush them, even though it was lifted with a psychic ability. Not exactly a good cross-over example rules-wise, but it gets the point across.

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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Wed Jan 18 2012, 07:50

My friend who uses a lot of Grotesques uses Malys with them, as her power makes them immune to to the effect of force weapons.

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Hekatrix


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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Wed Jan 18 2012, 08:20

@Nomic wrote:
My friend who uses a lot of Grotesques uses Malys with them, as her power makes them immune to to the effect of force weapons.

Well thats what I'm thinking but with Archon and Incubi.
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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Wed Jan 18 2012, 08:24

Yeah, she's useful for that. Basically, she protects against every power that specifically targets her or her unit. She doesn't stop Warptime being used against her, or anything like that, as she's not the target.
I'm not sure if it's been specifically ruled that way for Malys, but that's how GW has ruled other examples of identical rules. The protection only extends to powers that target her or her unit, they don't affect buffs targetting the unit she's fighting, so denying the Invulnerable save wouldn't work, and I'm not too sure about the Force Weapons, as the psychic power for Force Weapons is affecting the unit wielding them against her, rather than actually targetting Malys.

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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Wed Jan 18 2012, 08:27

Doesn't Malys' rules specifically state that she and the unit she joins are immune to psychic powers?

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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Wed Jan 18 2012, 08:54

Yes, they're immune, but if a psychic power targets a unit, and gives them an invulnerable save, then it isn't directly affecting Malys, and therefore her immunity doesn't come into play.

Think of the example I gave above. You can telepathically lift a boulder and drop it on someone immune to telepathy, but the boulder will hurt just the same. In the same way, a psyker casting a power giving his unit an invulnerable save isn't casting any power on Malys, so there's nothing for her to be immune to. The power is cast on the target, and them alone, not Malys. A psyker casting a power to make his unit swing their swords faster won't swing slower because they're attacking Malys.

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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Wed Jan 18 2012, 11:18

Aroshamash is correct - psycic power must physically be cast on Malys or her unit to be negated. Force weapons are negated because they use their power against the opponent (p50)
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Archeonlotet
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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Wed Jan 18 2012, 17:04

Just remember that Lady Malys will stop the force weapons IK ability. It will not stop them from counting as power weapons so she won't be much help for the incubi.
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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Wed Jan 18 2012, 17:50

and she doesnt stop fortune or hammerhand as they are targeting themselves while doing it

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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Thu Jan 19 2012, 14:40

Someone also once remarked that she stops the Shadowseers Veil of Tears from working when they are joined but I doubt that.

The fluff says the Veil is cast on their opponents to cloud their vision so I can see where the Veil would still work.

How about Crowe's special psychic ability "Heroic Sacrifice"?

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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Tue Jun 12 2012, 10:04

If I join Malys with a unit of Grots can they use their FnP since against GKs since they're immune to force weapons or does the power weapon part of the force weapon still function normally?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Tue Jun 12 2012, 10:09

@Windir83 wrote:
If I join Malys with a unit of Grots can they use their FnP since against GKs since they're immune to force weapons or does the power weapon part of the force weapon still function normally?

Force Weapons are still power weapons so FNP would not work.

A lot of people seem to be going nuts with this "immune to the effects of..." wording but I think it's pretty clear how it is intended to work. Cast a power at Malys (or her unit) and it doesn't work. Cast a power on your own unit and then attack Malys and you're fine.

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Windir83
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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Tue Jun 12 2012, 12:15

Aye, I'm not debating that part of it, but they are immune to force weapons at least so I was thinking it would be like Khornedogs who get a 2+ invuln against all GK melee attacks but that it just rendered their weapons useless and they'd have to use their fists, basically not getting the armour pen portion as well as negating the instant death part Smile
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Tue Jun 12 2012, 12:24

@Windir83 wrote:
Aye, I'm not debating that part of it, but they are immune to force weapons at least so I was thinking it would be like Khornedogs who get a 2+ invuln against all GK melee attacks but that it just rendered their weapons useless and they'd have to use their fists, basically not getting the armour pen portion as well as negating the instant death part Smile

Sorry, I wasn't referring to you with my previous comment. Just seen a lot of talk on various blogs and forums about the Malys thing. Frontline Gaming even went so far so to base their whole Dark Footdar/Grotesque Deathstar on a pretty dodgy interpretation of it, although they did acknowledge that you would need to check with TO's about how they are ruling Malys.

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Allandrel
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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Tue Jun 12 2012, 13:58

The interaction of Malys' heart and force weapons seems pretty simple to me.

"Buff" powers like Hammerhand or Guide do not target or directly affect Malys and her unit, so she gets no immunity to those.

The psychic power granted by force weapons is "Inflict Instant Death on any one opponent who suffered an unsaved wound by the weapon this player turn." (Or on the case of GKs, every opponent who suffered an unsaved wound inflicted by the squad's force weapons this turn.)

That's clearly affecting Malys, so she and her squad would be immune to it.

However, the fact that a force weapon is a power weapon, and thus does not allow armor saves or FNP rolls, is NOT a psychic power. It's just a trait of the weapon same as any other power weapon, and takes effect whether or not the wielder decides to use the "Instant Death" power, even if the wielder CAN'T use the "instant death" power due to having already maxed out his psychic ability allotment earlier in the turn (say by using Hammerhand).
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Demagoge
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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Mon Jul 23 2012, 10:17

Hi fellow Anti-Psykers,

the crystall heart works for Malyce and the unit she joins. Does it also count for the designated transport she is sitting in?

Michael

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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Mon Jul 23 2012, 16:41

power weapons have ap3 how do they not allow fnp again? in 5th maybe, but as i recall, fnp is only negated on a t*2=s basis.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Mon Jul 23 2012, 16:48

@Enfernux wrote:
power weapons have ap3 how do they not allow fnp again? in 5th maybe, but as i recall, fnp is only negated on a t*2=s basis.

Look at the dates of the posts.

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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Mon Jul 23 2012, 17:28

ok, sry, didnt see it got necrod Very Happy

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Mon Jul 23 2012, 20:17

Quote :
Does it also count for the designated transport she is sitting in?
No.

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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Tue Jul 24 2012, 11:01

@Azdrubael wrote:
Quote :
Does it also count for the designated transport she is sitting in?
No.

Sad, but thanks for the answer. Wink

Michael

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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Fri Jul 27 2012, 07:32

@Azdrubael wrote:
Quote :
Does it also count for the designated transport she is sitting in?
No.

Why not?
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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Sat Aug 04 2012, 11:59

Yeah why not? Isn't the transport and those on board considered 1 unit?

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Lady Malys and the Crystal Heart   Sat Aug 04 2012, 19:27

It's because you embark on a transport.
You don't join with a transport.

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