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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Wed Jan 18 2012, 18:47

Nope.
Quote :
Tanks, walkers, monstrous and
gargantuan creatures, super-heavies and
fortifications are all massive.
Raiders are not tanks, therefore not massive. In Fast Skimmer there is aslo no such rule.
So raiders are indeed most hard to hit of all transports.

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 19 2012, 06:26

So rhinos, chimeras etc ARE tanks. This is seriously bad news for us. Think about it...

1-2 - Shaken - same as 5th

3 - Stunned - same as 5th but second stun becomes weapon destroyed. This sounds great but is really quite meh. It already can't shoot next turn cos its stunned (unless GK or necron) and also...

4 - Weapon destroyed - taken a big hit from the nerf bat. No longer can you knock off the biggest gun or leave a razor unarmed for the rest of the game. Next turn (if not shaken or stunned or GK, necron) it can shoot whatever gun it wants as long as it doesn't move. This is no problem at all for most tanks in most situations. You need 2 weapon destroyed results to silence that razor or big gun instead of one in 5th!

5 - Immobilized - same as 5th but second immobilized becomes wrecked. Again this sounds great but really isn't. In 5th with these rolls you would have wrecked 2 tanks instead of just 1!

6 - Wrecked - same as 5th

These rules make tanks twice as hard to weapon destroy or wreck and impossible to explode. In return for a lousy +1 to hit IF it's not moving too fast. Massive boost for blood angles fast razorspam!

Tank spam and units carrying 2+ melta will still rule the comps and tournies. Nothing changes under these rules!
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abjectus
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 19 2012, 06:54

If these are real, they are old playtest rules. So the rumor of lances not taking negatives could be more recent then leak. It is also better then ap1 since it would also make glances count as pens, since there would be no -2 for glance penalty, or -3 for shooting at superheavy. +1 to hit and 3+ to pen a rhino with blaster, but worse table, everybody else has worse table and worse to hit against us. Flicker fields are more useful, smoke is worse. So dark eldar (and eldar to lesser degree) would get boost in AT relative to everyone else, and be the best at killing the big stuff. Since we have no superheavies it seams fair we would take them down the best with normal units.
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 19 2012, 08:45

Well we actually shouldnt kill tranports with Lances, if those rules are correct wyches can do it perfectly well. With PGL they will hit even moving tranports as against WS5, meaning each haywire goes on 4+.
And this no explode rule will serve perfectly well for them.
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Eldur
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 19 2012, 09:40

If only void lances were AP 1... ¡at least lascannons have the same problem!

Blood Angels Ground vehicles are fast but not skimmers, so they don't get the Jink evasion rule... they are still hit at 2+ by BS4. The fast rule gives them shoot'n move bonifications and the ability to make flat out moves (18"). Still they can't move that way nor at Cruise speed in terrain.

Tanks are easily hit, but more durable than our paper planes to damage... seems legit to me, and I don't care as long as I can get faster to them. Make a comparison between a Land Raider carrying marines and the same amount of points in Raiders carrying Dark Eldars. They work in totally different ways... we can move from cover to cover, shooting at them while out of LoS (weapons don't count as part of the body/hull!! remember that our codex AND models were made with 6th edition in mind), and we will charge them first every time we want to. In 5th they could still shoot at us (and we would get a 4+ save only), and they could still move 12" in terrain.

I would love to go second as long as I can get night fight rules... we simply ignore them now! Against Wolves... I should think of another strategy.

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abjectus
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 19 2012, 13:34

As I understood it, the pgl only makes the model with it attack vehicle vs Ws 5, still even with Ws 10 its 5+ to hit, and serpentin combat drug makes it 4+ anyway. archons w/ pgl gain always hit on 3+ krak grenades.

I end up targeting armour 11 with lances a lot, since the lances, blasters are mobile I have a lot of side shots, or transports to open. I see the wychs will be more effective, so I may be able to leave transports to them.

I didn't see the character take invul and armour save rule in leak, maybe I missed it. Hope its in final version.

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Eldur
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Fri Jan 20 2012, 18:09

PGL only modifies vehicle's WS in combat when using grenades, and doesn't change anything wheb figthing infantry.

I've seen that voidraven is much better and easier to use: when you do a supersonic move, you can place the bomb AND shoot 3 weapons, probably from behind enemy lines, counting as flier for the next enemy turn (so you're hit on 6+, can't be charged unless by jump/flying infantry).

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Blasterchon
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 26 2012, 17:47

Well I can't find the new FAQ or the leaked copy of the 6th ED rule book. Can someone e-mail me them? nsr250_sp_repsol@yahoo.com

Thanks
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Gobsmakked
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 26 2012, 18:34

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 26 2012, 18:41

I don't want to add links and all, but there are links, just google "warhammer 40k 6th edition rulebook (leaked)".

Oh and I think it's fake. Like BA book. Sad thing is, leaked BA book WAS better than Wardex...

[edit]
Gob, I think he meant "leaked" FAQs. They are in .rar file You can google.
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 26 2012, 18:51

Oh, "those" FAQ's! Well in that case, yes, Google is your friend, or someone may contact you on the QT.

After an initial glance through, I'm not even bothering to read "those" FAQ's or "that" leaked 6ed, they are are so old already and obviously developmental, anything/everything could change. Plus, why did we just get a pile of revised FAQ's now when supposedly this other lot is going to drop in less than 6 months?

Wake me up in May.
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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 26 2012, 19:25

@Local_Ork wrote:


Oh and I think it's fake. Like BA book.

+1 Exactly why I haven't given it a look. Laughing I'm not going to reconfigure and repaint every squad in my army because of a "leaked" rulebook. Evil or Very Mad

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 26 2012, 19:45

I did looked at it actually.

  • There are differences in writing style indicating several authors.
  • It also don't match GW "Engrish".
  • It looks like FoW and WM fanboy wet dream.
  • GW tightened it's security policy due to "Hobbit" deal (yes, they want to re-launch LOLotR, hopefully without WotR mistakes).

  • "Someone I trust" that took part in playtests in past told me that this don't look like GW testsheet.
  • Nor "another guy" say it's real because GW don't make their files in Adobe Reader 2.5. [quick edit] I don't quite remember which version of AR this file is actually, I remember it's not right. If I mistaked something, I'm sorry.
  • Dates can be faked even by kid from "kindergarden" class. Seriously.
  • Spaces for pictures? Only someone with intelligence of amoeba could think that actually mean anything. Oh and some of them are yellow, some are white. No numbers/image names. This is not how "pros" made books.

  • And it don't matter right now. Probably book is in late stage of development/early stages of printing.
  • If it's old then it may been totally reimagined.



I actually do like those rules, but so did with BA book that allowed to take Death Company outside FoC and some other "nasties".


Last edited by Local_Ork on Thu Jan 26 2012, 19:51; edited 1 time in total
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Dez
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 26 2012, 19:48

There is no reason to remodel anything, if these rules are even close. We will all be very happy Archons, I think Wink

I've seen the fakes, and I've seen ones that turned out to be real. I'm of the opinion that these are real, and we are going to see a book very close to the contents of this one. Too much work went into this, the rules are too good, the formatting is spot on...it looks just like the 5e leak.

I still have the 5e leak, if anyone wants to make a comparison with the layout style.
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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 26 2012, 19:54

You have?

Me want! localork*gmail.com (replace asterix with ape)


To be honest I can imagine BoLS crew typing it to boost traffic on site... Not like I don't like them or find this unreasonable Smile It's smart!

Beer&pretzels + phase 2 = profit
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Dez
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 26 2012, 20:05

Haha I unfortunately can't see BoLS writing this. I've been waiting for them to rewrite their Horus Heresy campaign rules...since before 5E came out 8p They just aren't pumping out community content like they used to.

If this is a fake, I HIGHLY suggest GW hire these people or they put out their own game. It's just that good.


Last edited by Dez on Thu Jan 26 2012, 21:07; edited 1 time in total
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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 26 2012, 21:05

Thank You Dez!
It seems similar at first glance but I need to compare both carefuly.

@Dez wrote:
If this is a fake, I HIGHLY suggest GW hire these people or they put out their own game. It's just that good.

Amen!
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Gobsmakked
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Fri Jan 27 2012, 03:56

An update today from Beasts of War, via Reecius on Dakka. Not a lot of detail, but still interesting reading.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/425996.page

He specifically mentions that DE will enjoy the new edition whenit finally hits the pavement:

Quote :
This comes courtesy of Beasts of War:

The 40K Heretics Rulebook is Real… Only it’s Not!

Yes… you heard that correctly. After a lot of digging and snooping around the inside of the great citadel (or should that be Citadel) that is Games Workshop, we have some very interesting news about the so-called Heretics 40K Rulebook… or the 6th Edition Leak for those with little flair for the dramatic!

It turns out that this is in fact an actual early version of the 6th Edition rules… but not quite. Apparently the Design department were let loose on the 40K system… they were allowed to try anything they fancied… we’re told that nothing was off the table. This “no-holds-barred” version was then edited down with the truly unworkable ideas removed and those that could prove to be exciting or contentious left in to be play-tested… so was born the Heretics 40K Rulebook!

This version was sent to trusted play-testers. Who like all trusted minions… were turned by the promise of power… or in this case internet notoriety and likely splurted the document all over the web!

I actually found this explanation to be not just more plausible (than the lone gunman theory) but a real breath of fresh air from the ‘Ivory Citadel’, and to me at least it shows a high level of innovation within the design team, and also shows that there is no shortage of ideas knocking around in there.

Word has it the design team had a real blast with this iteration of the rules (loved it apparently) but spotted alot of potential for fine gentleman to ruin it for everyone else with unbalanced lists etc.

And there you have the crux of the issue the design team face, they could probably create a massively fun game at the drop of the hat, and simple folk like me wold love them dearly for it, but alas there is a whole other side (some say dark, Darrel says only!) to our hobby and that is the competitive win at all costs play.

So, fun as they may be, they’re not the final (or indeed likely to be anything like the complete) rule set for 6th edition… but what were we told about the actual 6th Edition Rules?

Well some really interesting stuff. For a start here’s what will not be included from the Heretics Rulebook:

Evasion Values are Out – well this was a given… I’m sure every Dark Eldar player was praying for the day that their skimmers and flyers didn’t fall over in a stiff breeze, but that’s not all. Our Man in Havana has told us that Dark Eldar players will be very pleased with the 6th Edition updates.
Could that mean an overhaul of the skimmer rules… could it mean more deadly flyers?
Of course it could mean one, both or neither. However, more robust transports would make the Dark Eldar much more deadly… so keep your eyes peeled for more revelations.

The Turn Sequence will remain the same – The biggest shake-up and the one that would mean a rewrite of Assault weapons and the death of certain “shooty armies” ( Tao ), was the turn structure that put charging/melee before shooting. I would say it was unrealistic, but in a world of extra-terrestrial and supernatural horrors, where mankind has moved to the stars… that’s probably a bit redundant.
Anyway… the turn structure will remain the same as it is now.

No Unit by Unit Activation – Yup that was pretty disappointing for me, (but who knows everything we have been told could well be misinformation too!) I was sooo looking forward to faster more intricate games with that option.

Gargantuan Creatures will remain with Forge World & Apocalypse Games – That’s right… probably no supersized tanks and critters for the main rulebook… but does that mean we won’t get any Aracknarok-sized monsters?
Well it hasn’t been ruled out, and as Land Raiders are already that size, it’s doesn’t take a genius to think we’ll be getting more big kits.
In fact that was one of the discussions… we all like to gripe about GW prices.

However, it was explained that GW are investing all the time in new kits, new moulds, more people (sculpting team is largest its ever been apparently) and a bigger and better gaming experience… you can take that at face value if you wish… but if it means more plastic kits (and fewer Finecast), and more big bad creatures and machines is it worth it?

So who will be writing this new 6th Edition Rulebook I hear you cry?

Well as you can imagine the creation of a new rule set of this scale is a team effort… but some poor soul has to captain this vessel… so who is it?

Well… that really is top secret and even we couldn’t get the name (and you can’t use thumbscrews these days!)… but we did find out who it isn’t.

So here are a few names who might be involved, but won’t be the lead writer… Matt Ward, Robin Cruddace and Phil Kelly… but if not one of them… then who?

Will you need an update to your existing Codex when 6th Edition launches?

We’re told that the new rule book was written to take into account the latest releases and so there’s no need to post a massive errata.
However, we know that there are many codices that need a revamp. So I’m very sceptical that there will be “no need for an FAQ”.

Although I’m always prepared to be proven wrong.

So, there you go… that was an interesting conversation… and it doesn’t stop there.

We got some more great bits of info that we’ll be able to share with you… but not quite yet… you’ll need to be patient.

However, until then… feel free to speculate all you want… or post a question. Perhaps we can call a few guys and see if we can get you the inside track.

Big caveats on this guys, in that while we’re confident that the contents of the article are accurate you are relying on our sources, and… well… there could be many ways in which it may not be accurate (not necessarily deliberate by a source either!) so take it that its just part of the business these days that while we do our best, there are no guarantees!

All of that aside, is the Heretics 40K Rulebook good enough, different enough to warrant a following of its own? (I’m so tempted its unreal!)

BoW Warren
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Dez
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Fri Jan 27 2012, 04:09

Well that would make a HECK of a lot more sense than people designing a set of rules like the leaked onces in their spare time.

Something I've been thinking about is nobody ever mentions Jeremy Vetock in 40k land....
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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Fri Jan 27 2012, 04:34

Huh.

This one is unexpected. Is that official GW information?
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Dez
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Fri Jan 27 2012, 04:39

No, that's more rumors.
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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Fri Jan 27 2012, 08:12

Interesting. I'm kinda disaapointed evasive values will be out, since it seemed like a good way to represent us using speed as our defence (Dark Eldar would be far harder to hit than lumbering Imperial tanks, but would be easily destroyed if hit). However, the rumours say they'll do something that makes DE players happy. Hopefully they don't just make all transports tougher like the commenter suggests, as Razorbacks adn Chimeras are already painful enough as it is. Hell, the main reason current meta is "Mechammer 40 000 metal boxes on the field" is because transports got cheaper and massively tougher than in 4th edition (where they were death traps).

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Fri Jan 27 2012, 16:33

@Local_Ork wrote:
You have?
To be honest I can imagine BoLS crew typing it to boost traffic on site... Not like I don't like them or find this unreasonable Smile It's smart!

Beer&pretzels + phase 2 = profit

Sadly BoLS were slow on this one. Everyone had already DL it, read it, and commented on it, and were done with it before it was even in their forums. Kinda funny that they say they strive to be on top of events in the table gaming word, yet are so slow sometimes Razz
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Sun Feb 26 2012, 08:06

I'm firmly of the opinion that it isn't genuine. The ruleset comes across as a homebrew labor of love that some gaming groups has been tinkering with for ages. A big part of that is the level of complexity added, which is a common trait of such rules and markedly in contrast with the design philosophies that GW has followed for over a decade now. Notably the sheer number of additional stats and modifiers go directly against some of the core changes that 3rd+ edition made to the game.

So while it may be a perfectly playable game, it really doesn't seem to me at all like something GW might produce in this day and age. I'm reminded mainly of my own homebrew Necromunda ruleset.

Have someone take this homebrew ruleset into which months or years have been invested, mock it up like a "leaked" GW document, and you've got something more convincing that just a quick con.
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Farmer
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PostSubject: Dark Eldar predictionss in 6th edition?   Sun Mar 25 2012, 15:20

What's peoples predictions on Dark Eldar in 6th edition and how will you be playing? if the rumors are true and vehicles which are a big part of the DE army get nerfed i will probably ditch my venom spam list for a wych cult and see how it goes.
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