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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Wed Jan 11 2012, 20:09

As many of you are aware, a leaked playtest rulebook and accompanying FAQ have been made available on the internet.

This thread is for discussion of this matter and what changes will happen to the Dark Eldar. If you believe the rumours and discussion to be false then you are welcome to let everyone know but please do not disrupt the conversation further.

Please note - no linking to the actual PDF.

Phantasm Grenade Launcher - Now is an actual grenade launcher, has Krak grenades too, when attacking with a grenade, the opponents halve their WS. Can fire frag and krak grenades.

Hit and Run - Now only 3" consolidation.

Hellions and Scourges are now flying infantry, 9" move, deep strike and airborne.

Duke's deepstrike rule has been nerfed to free retrofire jets.

The Dais gets aerial assault.

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Wed Jan 11 2012, 20:59

http://allouttabubblegum.wordpress.com/2012/01/10/6th-edition-leaked-pdf/

How about quick summary then?
Further thoughts after I'll dig through DE FAQ.

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Wed Jan 11 2012, 23:08

Hexrifles and power weapons might actually be worth taking now. But my hellions and harlequins suffer

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Wed Jan 11 2012, 23:11

I really hope these aren't accurate. If they are, we'll need reference charts and tokens to mark all the various modifiers that can accumulate during a game. It looks like a huge mess.
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 12 2012, 00:11

Well, the leaked rulebook, if legit, is a playtesting version, which means that it has long-worded rules descriptions. The actual rulebook will certainly have the rules worded as plainly as possible without the crazy convoluted nature.

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 12 2012, 00:20

I hope its not true! It would really cripple our fast moving nature and make static gun lines very powerful

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 12 2012, 00:36

@Siticus the Ancient wrote:
Well, the leaked rulebook, if legit, is a playtesting version, which means that it has long-worded rules descriptions. The actual rulebook will certainly have the rules worded as plainly as possible without the crazy convoluted nature.

I know it's a playtesting version, but it is still a total mess. Some models have as many as 9! special rules attached to them. Movement being separated into so many categories. Tons of wonky assault stipulations. My initial reaction is that 6th edition will become even more complicated unless they trim this book down quite a bit (assuming it is the real deal of course).

This is not a rant and I'm not screaming, "The Sky is Falling!" Just hoping this is an extremely elaborate hoax.
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 12 2012, 01:14

Reading the summary of the rumours, I find that right now we are in some drastic change if any of it is true. It is not the simple transition of 3rd to 4th, 4th to 5th....but this is a monstrous evolution which brings back some of the mechanics from the old days, while introducing some major new ones.

I do not know how to take these changes other than to say that all of us are in a very bumpy ride.....

As for the DE FAQ, I would not even dare to think that far yet as the rumours of 6th is not set in stone, and thus a DE FAQ is something that could only be addressed when the book really comes out for real.

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 12 2012, 01:51

@Crisis_Vyper wrote:
Reading the summary of the rumours, I find that right now we are in some drastic change if any of it is true. It is not the simple transition of 3rd to 4th, 4th to 5th....but this is a monstrous evolution which brings back some of the mechanics from the old days, while introducing some major new ones.

I do not know how to take these changes other than to say that all of us are in a very bumpy ride.....

As for the DE FAQ, I would not even dare to think that far yet as the rumours of 6th is not set in stone, and thus a DE FAQ is something that could only be addressed when the book really comes out for real.

The FAQ in the title means the FAQ included in the leak, it doesn't change much except make hellions and scourges flying. Which means they can end their movement in cover with no penalty.

The Evasion rules make all our vehicles harder to hit by 1 and the voidraven is now great. As supersonic lets it become a flyer for a turn so you could do some damage with it.
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 12 2012, 01:52

I like the idea of having an Archon who hits marines on 2+, is hit on 5+, has a grenade launcher and runs with Incubi that have 5++ saves. Moving targets being harder to hti really helps us too. On the other hand, the armies with heavier tanks can just stand still and fire unholy amounts of shots at us (a Land Raider can fier all its weapons 3 times if it remains still), altough that also makes them huge targets. Seems interesting.

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 12 2012, 02:14

I think im right and i really hope i am but in the open topped section:

Quote :
Tanks that are also open-topped do not receive their -1 modifier on the Vehicle Damage table. Models that are not tanks suffer no penalty from being open-topped as their less robust construction is already factored into the model’s Armour Values or Toughness.

We don't get +1 on the damage table AND we are +1 harder to hit. Not bad.
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 12 2012, 02:25

Sorry I really like the hit and run rule. And they nerfed the crap out of that. I also like shooting to weed down resistance and than assaulting which u won't be able to do either. But parking lot armies will massacre us. Did u see the railgun section?

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 12 2012, 02:32

@Nomic wrote:
I like the idea of having an Archon who hits marines on 2+, is hit on 5+, has a grenade launcher and runs with Incubi that have 5++ saves. Moving targets being harder to hti really helps us too. On the other hand, the armies with heavier tanks can just stand still and fire unholy amounts of shots at us (a Land Raider can fier all its weapons 3 times if it remains still), altough that also makes them huge targets. Seems interesting.

According to the leak, the Incubi won't get the 5++ since their power weapons are not generic power weapons. Since they are two handed with a +1 to str, they lose the parry save.
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 12 2012, 02:45

@Archeonlotet wrote:
@Nomic wrote:
I like the idea of having an Archon who hits marines on 2+, is hit on 5+, has a grenade launcher and runs with Incubi that have 5++ saves. Moving targets being harder to hti really helps us too. On the other hand, the armies with heavier tanks can just stand still and fire unholy amounts of shots at us (a Land Raider can fier all its weapons 3 times if it remains still), altough that also makes them huge targets. Seems interesting.

According to the leak, the Incubi won't get the 5++ since their power weapons are not generic power weapons. Since they are two handed with a +1 to str, they lose the parry save.

Nothing i have read in this leads me to think this.

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 12 2012, 03:51

Under the section of power weapons, the rules for parry are pretty clear about when you lose it. Since the Incubi weapons have the additional special rule of "Klaive", they lose "Parry".

The Dais gets Aerial Assault!


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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 12 2012, 03:55

Hi, I'm new here - been lurking in the shadows like a newborn Mandrake. Am an old veteran of your fantasy sister forum Druchii.net and have been getting increasingly frequent games of 40k in with my dark eldar over this past year.

Having got hold of a copy of the pdf and read it through this evening I think that you guys who are seeing negatives everywhere are perhaps jumping to conclusions a little too quickly: even the hit and run rules aren't that bad (its not as simple as a meagre 3" move - thats if you hit and run in the opponents turn, if you do it in yours, you make 3" followed by another 2D6 distance in the consoladation phase - hence my The Baron's rules were updated in the Codex FAQ pdf that accompanied the 6th ed. changes).

Assuming these are the rules we gain: evasion - almost our entire lists will be moving and so enemies will suffer rolls to hit, multiroled uses of razorwings and voidraven thanks to being able to switch between flyer rules (non-AA enemies need 6s to shoot and cannot assault unless jump troops + the jets can still fire at specific nearby targets) and skimmers (longer ranged), raiders are quicker - our units can assult further out of them (this also applies to webway portals as units from reserve are placed within 6" of the 'entry point', afterwhich they act as normal), our beast units can charge 21" in one go (!), loads of our units (skimmers, bikes and jump troops + talos and mandrakes etc) suffer VERY limited or even no side effects of moving through cover or terrain, rapid fire from transports is longer ranged (18") and open topped no longer gives +1 to damage table, assault weapon count as extra hand weapons, liquifiers etc have an extra 3" or 6" range added for single/twin linked, Talos count as Str9 vs vehicles and still get 2d6 pen, flickerfields become worth more points as there is a LOT less 4+ cover saves...

I could certainly go on - yes there will likely be a bit more shooting as blast weapons become more accurate and chances to shoot at charging enemies (or other 'out of phase' firing in movement) is increased, but they sacrfice themselves to do it (remaining stationary = easy meat in combat and better chance to hit: our BS of 4 means we hit stationary tanks on 2s people...)

I think the land raider 9 shots thing is a myth - I'll paraphrase the Multi Targetting rule (mods please edit/tell me off if this is not cool but I'm not stating points values, merely a possible rule clarification - and theres no copyrights anywhere in the doc I have):

Quote :
"A model with this special rule is able to perform more than one Shooting action per turn and the number given next to the special rule specifies how many. For example, a model with multitargeting (3) would be able to perform three Shooting actions per turn. If its unit had remained stationary, the firing model could even double the number of Shooting actions. Models with the Fast special rule can do this even if they have cruised or charged.

Note that the model still cannot fire the same weapon twice."
So shooting actions doesn't just mean a single shot, it can mean to split fire or do other funky things - but the last phrase says it cannot fire the same weapon twice.

I'd say thats some clear evidence for no x6 Lascannons or even x9 for each landraider... Wink

EDIT: totally forgot to add fleet so Hellions have move 11" or charge 22", Wyches have 8" or 16" oh and transports can move 6" and drop off and (thanks to open topped) we can assault too. So thats er, a 22" Wyche assault range? Guarranteed thanks to no more random run distances...
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 12 2012, 04:35

I just keep thinking about how insane it all is. Though I do need to start taking Sybarites...
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 12 2012, 05:24

Found the parry thing after posting re the incubi... sad panda here No

I agree - the game becomes more complex but also seems to be the same shake up we had between 2nd and 3rd ed - massive sweeping changes.

That said, i think a mountain of salt is needed to go with this as the FAQ does not address even half the issues to fix our codex, let alone some of the others...

This is either a VERY good hoax or a VERY VERY early copy of the play test doc... expect lots to change if it is genuine...

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 12 2012, 06:11

Yeah, I was pretty sad to see the incubi wouldn't get the 5++ as well. The Klaives even look like they would be very well suited for defense with the extra grip further up the blade.

I do like the buff to phantasm grenade launchers though, might have to model some up.

My other gripe is the explanation for the loss of range of troops firing from transports. I get that it may be hard to see through a gun slit... fair enough. Why is vision restricted from the deck of an open topped ship?
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 12 2012, 11:30

Some of the vehicle rules sound overly complex. Taking away a model every time artillery suffers an unsaved hit? Why? Does this mean vehicles are reduced in effectiveness by loss of crew? Also, if beasts and cavalry can now move 42" in a single phase, how big are the tables going to have to be?! Different movement distances in multiples of three, seven, eight and nine sounds like complete rubbish too.

If any of this is true, and we have to wait ten years to get another codex whilst everyone else is dividing fire and gunning down our assault squads out of sequence, we are going to get bent over. But it probably isn't, as they said our codex was written with 6th edition in mind, and these rules add loads of stuff in that couldn't be reasonably fixed with FAQs.

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 12 2012, 12:55

where are you getting 42" in a single phase? Beasts have move 7", run 14" and charge 21". If they come out of a webway portal they may be deployed within 6" of it, so the very maximum is 27" charge range - NOT to be sniffed at I'm sure you'll agree...

Agreed that the open topped thing should negate it, but then for our points does that make us a little too good?

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 12 2012, 14:15

@dangerous beans wrote:
Agreed that the open topped thing should negate it, but then for our points does that make us a little too good?

Dark Eldar aren't the only army with open topped vehicles so I'm not lobbying for a DE only buff. It just makes very little sense as to why range is reduced. With increased assault ranges almost across the board and safer deep strike rules, which now also make it easier to get units into assault, this seems like a very unnecessary shooting restriction.

Sergeant Down... what reasoning is there behind the idea that my opponent chooses my new squad leader? That is beyond silly. "Hey! You shot our Sergeant!! Who are you promoting in his place?!"
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 12 2012, 15:06

It came from 4chan... its the biggest troll since the summer of flyers...

Personally I think GW should hire this guy... as he apearantly knows how to write some rules. The biggest things Ive seen that benifit us are:

1: we get alot of -s to balistic skills (being able to move 16 (fast skimmer crusing) and fire all our weapons, as well as jink for more -s

2: You dont need a PGL to get rid of alpha strike now with incubi (basically we can save points by not having to buy a PGL to make sure we dont go last)

3: Hull Breach means our crappy DL just became a whole lot better at killing GKs (and they cant keep stopping our shakens...)

4: Our troops are now relentless in a vehicle. Means those 25 pt dark lances are now looking mighty good... oh god lanceborn are going to be amazing...

5: Us going first= dead enemy. If we hit everything automatically or on 2+... say bye bye enemy army. Bet you 10 bucks standard DE strategy is going to now be "Ok... I bet... Everything!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA GG BRO!!!" God... DE is going to be the biggest douches in the game...


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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 12 2012, 15:10

Indeed, as was mentioned before - if this thing 'is' legit then its likely a fairly early draft copy (cram as many mental rules as possible then we refine and cut things out based on play test results) so I wouldn't worry too much: its likely more of a strategic thing to make sure you don't endanger your squad leaders - ie. higher value is placed on protecting them, or sniping (as sniper rifles are looking sick in this pdf!) them out. Besides - most replacement squad leaders are standard normal troopers anyway - theres only a few where multi profiles are in the same unit once the leader is dead (our beasts for eg.)

Its more for the LOS thing than anything else as far as I understand.

EDIT: I'm not sure that its quite that simple for the Dark Eldar to be honest Shadows Revenge: there are a great many strategems that can minimise this occuring as well as opponents pulling a '5th ed dark eldar trick' of placing everything in research and them task forcing groups of suitably nasty units out + combined with strategems to help bring units in from reserve or even instantly appear on turn 3, I think that this is countered somewhat. And all this whilst your army is exposed on display for them all to see...
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Edition Leaked Rulebook & FAQ discussion   Thu Jan 12 2012, 16:01

After reading through the PDF, here are the things that jump out at me:

At first glance, I thought that Hit and Run had suffered.. but only slightly. You get a 3" move plus a 2D6 drawback move in the consolidation phase. Also, keep this in mind - Since shooting is after Assault, you can charge a unit with Hellions, then, you they don't wipe the enemy, break off from combat and let a nearby squad of warriors finish them off with shooting.

Also, note that our jetbikes also get a 2D6 drawback move instead of the old 1D6 assault phase move.

Deep Strike is pretty awesome. It doesn't matter than the Sliscus deep strike rule changed to just give everything retrofire jets. With retrofire jets, you can deep strike a bunch of raiders just out of 18" of the enemy without scattering, make a combat move with the raiders just into 18" range, and then open fire with everyone onboard with relentless in effect. Just don't get within 12" unless you want to be shot at with defensive fire.

Flesh gauntlets are a more viable choice for Aberrations, since they can elect to use their Strength to wound and get rerolls.

Lelith Hesperax is much more viable, with the Close Combat Tables allowing her 2+ to hit and 6+ to be hit in some cases. Also, independent characters can do directed attacks in shooting AND close combat, so power-fists and other special weapons are not necessarily safe.

Pinning weapons are a bit better, with the ability to force multiple pin checks and give -1 LD modifiers to the check per unsaved wound inflicted by the weapon (max of -3). I foresee grav-talons and Necrotoxin missiles being used a lot more often. Note that a razorwing can hit multiple units with missiles, possibly pinning multiple units at the same time.

Granted, getting your transport blown up while embarked results in the unit aboard being automatically shaken. However, note that a shaken unit can still perform an engage action, so if you're close enough, you can still get into close combat.

Venoms can't move 12" and fire both splinter cannons. However, they can move 8" and fire both splinter cannons, which isn't too bad.

Decapitator can assault on the turn that he appears - however, he can be shot at if he does that.

Wracks with liquifier guns don't lose any CC attacks because of it (assault weapons can be used as secondary ccws), and Acothysts can take an agonizer while still getting +1A by using their poison weapon as a secondary ccw.

No more +1 to Damage table for open-topped vehicles. On the other hand, multiple stun results can translate into real damage.






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