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CurstAlchemist
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CurstAlchemist

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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 20 2019, 13:32

@The Strange Dark One wrote:
I can see Dark Eldar units utilizing Psychic Abilities in a Ynnari army. I don't know much about Ynnari lore, but aren't Eldar souls bound to Ynnead if they become part of the Ynnari? So, they shouldn't fear the reprecussions quite as much.

Now, if they also reside outside of Commorragh there is no reason left why former DE shouldn't pursue training of Psychic Abilities. Just by chance, there have to be strong Psykers among DE that never came to pursue their talents because of Vect's policies.

Probably, their abilities would be more primitive and fragile. It would make sense if they had a rule similar to "Wild Psykers" from 7th ed Corsairs. Potentially very powerful but also risky.

It would be a nice incentive to play Ynnari. For some additional points/CP our HQs could get psychic abilities. Potentially some of our sergeants too (like the Klaivex).

The thing is, Ynnari are their own culture now. With the coming of Ynnead and the presence of Yncarne a new Eldar culture is emerging. So those who were previous of Dark Eldar society but joined the Ynnari are no longer Dark Eldar but Ynnari. Previously there were 5 Eldar cutlures, Exodites, Dark Eldar, Craftworld, Exiles (Ranger and Corsair), and Harlequins (if you acknowledge lore that speaks of Chaos Eldar on Crone Worlds then that is 6, if of course they are still Eldar and not some mutation that no longer shares any commonality with their roots). Now there is the addition of Ynnari. Note: This isn't counting subcultures within society such as Wych Cults, Kabal, and Covens, just speaking of the greater societal cultures. Previously the Ynnead Cult was just a subculture of the Craftworld Eldar.

Rather than giving us X Dark Eldar model may then become a Psyker when in a Ynnari list I would rather just see a new Ynnari model with a distinct appearance like The Visarch who is a former Dark Eldar.

I also fear that we will see the Ynnari profiles outclassing the non-ynnari profiles to try and move us towards being just Ynnari. Maybe it is the influence of GW's End Times for Fantasy Battle but this new campaign fills me with trepidation that we may see Craftworld and Dark Eldar Squatted and emerge only as the follower of Ynnead. Until Ynnead shows that it is truly what it appears to be and not the Doom of the Eldar People mk 2 my Kabal remains separate. Even then I want to make the choice not be forced into the choice by GW's writing if my fears prove to be true rather than just paranioa.
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 20 2019, 15:26

Personally, I think GW is shying away from Ynnari, considering its a mostly failed experiment from a business standpoint. They released a single box set of three special characters and a campaign book at the end of 7th, and...that's it. I'd be willing to bet that their sales figures were atrocious, considering they have three models, which any given player will only need one of.

If anyone is getting squatted, my money is on the Ynnari themselves, considering their rules are now found exclusively in an out of print magazine.

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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 20 2019, 15:31

The new Howling Banshee Exarch will have Ynnari rules and Craftworld rules. I think we are about to see an expansion of the Ynnari in the Psychic Awakening.
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Serpent Fly
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 21 2019, 14:33

I agree with CurstAlchemist: "I also fear that we will see the Ynnari profiles outclassing the non-ynnari profiles to try and move us towards being just Ynnari. Maybe it is the influence of GW's End Times for Fantasy Battle but this new campaign fills me with trepidation that we may see Craftworld and Dark Eldar Squatted and emerge only as the follower of Ynnead. Until Ynnead shows that it is truly what it appears to be and not the Doom of the Eldar People mk 2 my Kabal remains separate. Even then I want to make the choice not be forced into the choice by GW's writing if my fears prove to be true rather than just paranioa."

I like craftworlds and drukhari, but I like them as they are being 2 sides of the same coin. Being allies on occasion I think is great, but to have them smashed together into 1 faction in a 40k end times would be disappointing. Unfortunately I dont trust that GW hasn't considered it.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 21 2019, 15:01

@Serpent Fly wrote:
I agree with CurstAlchemist: "I also fear that we will see the Ynnari profiles outclassing the non-ynnari profiles to try and move us towards being just Ynnari. Maybe it is the influence of GW's End Times for Fantasy Battle but this new campaign fills me with trepidation that we may see Craftworld and Dark Eldar Squatted and emerge only as the follower of Ynnead.

Are you thinking that DE and Eldar will end up as a single (Ynnari) faction?

If so, are you thinking that Harlequins will end up under the same banner? It would be a bit odd if the smallest Eldar faction got left on its own. Razz


@Serpent Fly wrote:
I like craftworlds and drukhari, but I like them as they are being 2 sides of the same coin. Being allies on occasion I think is great, but to have them smashed together into 1 faction in a 40k end times would be disappointing. Unfortunately I dont trust that GW hasn't considered it.

I have to agree.

Though, on the bright side, if Eldar and Dark Eldar are merged completely then for the first time in history DE will have access to good HQ choices. Wink

More seriously though, I really hope they don't take 40k in the same direction as AoS - with all the factions merged under banners of 'Chaos', 'Order', 'Destruction' and 'Death'. For me at least, this change led to most (if not all) of the factions having their identity destroyed. I don't want to see that happen to Dark Eldar. Especially since we're dangerously close as it is.

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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 21 2019, 17:24

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
Are you thinking that DE and Eldar will end up as a single (Ynnari) faction?

If so, are you thinking that Harlequins will end up under the same banner? It would be a bit odd if the smallest Eldar faction got left on its own. Razz

As my trepidation comes from Warhammer Fantasy Battle's End Times campaigns I do fear that even the Harlequins will be pushed under their banner as well (all three distinct societies of Elves became one group with all the poor writing you can imagine, as they didn't let the writers of each campaign properly communicate with each other and take the time to plan out the campaign from my understanding).

In the end I hope it just proves to be paranoia not fact. I have no problems with developing the Ynnari story and Culture just if they do something stupid like, "Now that all the craftworlds have been converted to Ynnari through choice and blade, now that Cegorach has fully endorced Ynnead throwing the full force of his Harlequins into their cause (or worse Cegorach has been slain), and Commorragh has fallen every Eldar follows Yvraine as their rightful overload and they are once again only one people like the time before the Exodites." That is hackneyed writing and trying to pigeon whole everyone into a new state of being...

Though it is very GW to have the corpse-emperor capable of saving Terra for all time on his thrown but the Dark Eldar being unable to keep Commorragh with all of the interconnecting sections that make up the city that can be blocked off and secured/destroyed (as was done before, reference the history of Vect), are unable to save their cultural hub and thus must bend the knee to Ynnead in order to have a place to exist.
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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 21 2019, 18:13

they just literally puked out like 375493 different codexes for different colored space marines it would be suicide to try to squeeze all the different eldar factions into one and im sure it will make alot of people unhappy and they know that, otherwise they are just shooting themselves in the foot...
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Serpent Fly
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 21 2019, 23:24

To answer a previous question, yes I did also mean to include harlequins if they make a single Aeldari faction. Although I hope this does not happen.

3 eldar books seems fine with me considering how diverse eldar are. If GW implemented the same strategy as they are with the SM range however I would not be happy. Can you imagine having to buy codex ynari, codex black heart, codex flayed skull, codex cult of strife, codex biel tan etc. For me, we (eldar) are in a nice place, more books than the other xenos but nothing like the bloating that the imperial (especially SM) range has.
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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 22 2019, 11:23

@DevilDoll wrote:
they just literally puked out like 375493 different codexes for different colored space marines it would be suicide to try to squeeze all the different eldar factions into one and im sure it will make alot of people unhappy and they know that, otherwise they are just shooting themselves in the foot...

then agian, why would gw put everything in one codex if they can sell 10 supplments for the same price as one codex?
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Koldan
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 22 2019, 19:52

Because if they overdo it, no one will buy the books anymore. For the sm they can do it, sorry to say but there are ztill enough fanboys they can milk. But for other factions, it gets more and more problematic,. Just look at YouTube, Battlereports it gets more common to see someone looking rules up on his smartphone, it becomes rarer to actually see books on table. If they bloat the rules up even more they will just speed up this process.
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 23 2019, 00:49

@Koldan wrote:
Because if they overdo it, no one will buy the books anymore. For the sm they can do it, sorry to say but there are ztill enough fanboys they can milk. But for other factions, it gets more and more problematic,. Just look at YouTube, Battlereports it gets more common to see someone looking rules up on his smartphone, it becomes rarer to actually see books on table. If they bloat the rules up even more they will just speed up this process.


You're going to see fewer books on the table by virtue of the fact that this is the 21st Century. Razz


It makes far more business sense to keep the factions distinct and keep Ynarri as a distinct faction that combines the others. Most people starting 40k are going to start with one army. With Ynarri being a crossover faction, it makes branching out from your first Eldar faction into the other factions a lot more tempting. Frankly, I would have never started collecting a craftworld army if it weren't for the introduction of the Ynarri - however, after the first few CW units, I was like, "Well, may as well work on an actual full CW army too while I'm at it".


Also, as a side note, people have been speculating about DE getting combined into Eldar since 4th edition. It seems even less likely to happen now. Razz


Regardless of what GW decide to do with Eldar, Harlequins should *always* have the ability to ally with other Eldar factions, because that is what they do, from a fluff perspective, and I have great difficulty accepting them as a viable standalone army.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 23 2019, 09:31

@Koldan wrote:
Because if they overdo it, no one will buy the books anymore. For the sm they can do it, sorry to say but there are ztill enough fanboys they can milk. But for other factions, it gets more and more problematic,. Just look at YouTube, Battlereports it gets more common to see someone looking rules up on his smartphone, it becomes rarer to actually see books on table. If they bloat the rules up even more they will just speed up this process.

But those smartphone rules aren't free so GW would still be making money either way (assuming said rules weren't acquired in some other way, obviously pirat ).


In other news: attempting to muster enthusiasm for Drazhar vs. Jain Zar . . .





. . .





. . . nope.

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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 23 2019, 11:45

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Koldan wrote:
Because if they overdo it, no one will buy the books anymore. For the sm they can do it, sorry to say but there are ztill enough fanboys they can milk. But for other factions, it gets more and more problematic,. Just look at YouTube, Battlereports it gets more common to see someone looking rules up on his smartphone, it becomes rarer to actually see books on table. If they bloat the rules up even more they will just speed up this process.

But those smartphone rules aren't free so GW would still be making money either way (assuming said rules weren't acquired in some other way, obviously  pirat ).


In other news: attempting to muster enthusiasm for Drazhar vs. Jain Zar . . .





. . .





. . . nope.
come on, are you not excited to see the new jain zar model today with a smug remark from gw that we'll see drahzar next week?
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 23 2019, 12:43

@AzraeI wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Koldan wrote:
Because if they overdo it, no one will buy the books anymore. For the sm they can do it, sorry to say but there are ztill enough fanboys they can milk. But for other factions, it gets more and more problematic,. Just look at YouTube, Battlereports it gets more common to see someone looking rules up on his smartphone, it becomes rarer to actually see books on table. If they bloat the rules up even more they will just speed up this process.

But those smartphone rules aren't free so GW would still be making money either way (assuming said rules weren't acquired in some other way, obviously  pirat ).


In other news: attempting to muster enthusiasm for Drazhar vs. Jain Zar . . .





. . .





. . . nope.
come on, are you not excited to see the new jain zar model today with a smug remark from gw that we'll see drahzar next week?

Sadly not.

Firstly because this all but conforms my theory that we're getting bugger-all else from this release.

Secondly because I just don't have any interest in Drazhar or Jain Zar.

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 23 2019, 14:54

I'd be very glad to see Drazhar get a boost, it would be nice to have a 2nd character option to keep obsessions without it being a 2nd archon/succubus/haemonculus. Yes of course a dracon or something of the like would be better, but I'll settle for what we get. Plus it's been 5 years since the last Dark Eldar model dropped so I'll be glad for any release.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 23 2019, 15:11

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
I'd be very glad to see Drazhar get a boost, it would be nice to have a 2nd character option to keep obsessions without it being a 2nd archon/succubus/haemonculus.

We already have that option.

Drazhar can still be taken, even if he is crap. And we've also got the option of taking The Visarch or Yvraine (or even The Yncarne) in a non-Ynnari list.

I want a second HQ option that isn't a special character.

Frankly, I'm sick to death of special characters in 40k and would like nothing more than to see every special character model inserted into the collective rear ends of the GW rule team.


@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Yes of course a dracon or something of the like would be better, but I'll settle for what we get.

You speak as if we have a choice.


@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Plus it's been 5 years since the last Dark Eldar model dropped so I'll be glad for any release.

You'll forgive me if I struggle to muster enthusiasm for our first models in 5 years being for units that already exist, as opposed to literally any of the myriad of units torn from our codex.

I can understand some enthusiasm for a Drazhar model (given that the current model is ancient), but the Incubi just make me sigh. The old models were perfectly functional and as far as I'm concerned GW has squandered our only hope of new models for their stupid Banshees vs. Incubi drivel.

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 23 2019, 15:48

Man, I'm not going to complain about any of our Finecast models getting updated. I know Incubi and Drazhar (or Banshees and Jain Zar!) aren't currently in a great place rules-wise but I'm still excited for the release.
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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 23 2019, 16:31

you could make incubi so powerful if you just rewrite their stratagem to score 3 hits on a 6+
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 23 2019, 16:37

In my opinion, failcast was one of the biggest mistakes GW has made and I'll be glad to see it go. If all GW does for the Eldar is replaces finecast I will consider it a boon.

Of course I never really had high expectations of GW doing much of anything for any faction that isn't some flavor of Space Marine. We don't even know at this point if the Sisters of Battle reboot will have anything new for them or if GW will just replace their existing models with new ones (which aren't really doing it for me either, luckily I'm not a Sisters of Battle Player) and throw out a new codex with nothing new unit wise. We aren't the only faction that has been screwed over all these years by GW in favor of more Space Marines.

Note: When I say Space Marines I mean Legions and Chapters.
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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 23 2019, 17:01

New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 PsyAwk-Sep16-JainZar-1jy3l

there she is
I have to say I'm underwhelmed
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 23 2019, 17:07

Model is alright, anything is better than the pewter monstrosity.

Am I the only one that finds the article's attempts to make it a mystery who Zar's "mysterious adversary" is funny in how ham fisted they are? It's Drazhar, who else could it possibly be?

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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 23 2019, 17:12

@TheBaconPope wrote:
Model is alright, anything is better than the pewter monstrosity.

Am I the only one that finds the article's attempts to make it a mystery who Zar's "mysterious adversary" is funny in how ham fisted they are? It's Drazhar, who else could it possibly be?

just imagine if its not drazhar
"Ah yeah well its the visarch in his sunday suit, go ynnari go!"
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 23 2019, 17:15

I'm underwhelmed as well. I imagined an update for her being more lithe not as bulky. I know that there are limitations when dealing with this scale but it just fails my expectation. Yes it is an improvement over the previous 2nd edition (I think that was when the Phoenix Lords came out) version but still I can't say I'm a fan of this version either.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 23 2019, 17:20

I like the mask and the pose is . . . mostly decent.

However, the big thing that sticks out to me is that the hand holding the Trik Trisk spinny disk thing looks incredibly awkward. It doesn't seem to go with her pose at all and looks like entirely the wrong way to wield/throw the disk.

Also, the lower part of her hair is fine but it looks a bit odd where it joins her head. Makes me think of this stuff:

Spoiler:
 

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: New? Drahzar vs Jain Zar artwork   New? Drahzar  vs Jain Zar artwork - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 23 2019, 17:45

I like the model. Losing Disarming Strike feels like a pretty major deal, though, and the replacement rule sounds pretty damn weak on paper.
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